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Consent of the Mortgagees; and if there is impossible; for, if by increasing is now any Doubt of their being the Price, the Purchase of a large willing to accept of another Fund Dose of Spirituous Liquors is put out for securing the Money they have of the Power of a poor Man, let his promised to lend upon this, is there Inclinations be never so {trong, let not much more Reason to doubt of the Temptations be what they will, their being willing, after they have A he cannot comply with them. He been a Year in Poffeffion of it? must content himself with what is Therefore, if we pass this Bill, it necessary, perhaps he may sometimes may be impossible for us next Year launch out into a little Luxury, but to do any Thing for lessening the he will seldom or never be able to Consumption of Spirituous Liquors, launch out into a vicious Use of such without being guilty of an Ad of Liquors; for in them, as in all sorts Violence to the Creditors of the B of strong Liquors, there is a necelPublick; for they may very juftlysary, a luxurious. and a vicious Use. fay, you shall not lay any higher A small Dram of Spirituous Liquors Duty upon the Still-head, because it may, sometimes be necessary, in a will diminish the Consumption, and very cold Day, or when a Man is consequently the Number of Retailers, become faint with hard Labour; and which must of course lessen the yearly it would be cruel to raise the Price Produce of the Sum mortgaged for C of them so high as to put even this our Security:

Use out of the Reach of the Poor. I hope, I have now shewn, that When a Man takes a larger Dram this Bill, as it stands at present, muft than is necessary, or oftner than is certainly do Harm: That there is no necessary, but never so much at a Necessity for our passing it without Time as to make himself drunk, it Amendment; and that if we do, we is a luxurious Use, and Luxury ought shall render it very difficult, if not D to be taxed in the Poor' as well as impossible, to put a Stop to the ex- the Rich. And when a Man drinks ceffive Use of Spirituous Liquors, so much of these. Liquors at a Time even tho' it should arise to a much as to make himself drunk, or so often greater Height than it is at now. as to impair his Health, this is a viThele, I hope, will be thought suf- cious Use which ought to be prohificient Reasons for my being against bited and punished, but it ought to the Bill in its present Form; but as E be prohibited in such a Manner as it may be amended so as to produce not to put it out of Peoples Power a very good Effect, I shall, there

to have the necessary Use, or even a fore, be for the Question now under little of the luxurious Use of such your Confideration.

Liquors upon some Occasions; for it

would be hard to make it impossible Cn. Domitius Calvinus, in the Cha.

Men ever to rejoice or be racter of the Duke of Newcastle, F merry. spoke next in Substance as follows, Thus your Lordships must see, that viz.

if by the additional Duties, the Price

of these Liquors be raised so high as My Lords,

to put the vicious Use of them out Am surprized to find this Debate of the Reach of the Poor, the Temp

laft so long, especially when I tations which it is said will be intro. consider, that all the Arguments a. G duced by this Bill, can occasion no gainst the Bill are founded upon a Increase in the Confumption, were Supposition, that it will increase the they much more powerful than they Consumption, which, in my Opinion, can be supposed to be. · Formy

Part,

for poor

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Part, I do not think, they will have are such a Number of Mafters, that any Effect: The Word Gin, or any they can enter into no Sort of Com. other Name the Vulgar please to give bination, every one undersels the oit, for, I am told, they have given ther, in order to ingross the more of it a great many, tho' wrote in capi- the Trade to himself, till by this tal Letters upon a Calk or Sign-post, Competition they are all forced to will never invite any Man to drink A sell at as low a Price as the Manuso much as one Dram, unless he has facture can admit of. To this I shall a natural Inclination; and if he has add another general Observation, that a natural Inclination, and Money in every Dealer muft fell at such a Pro. his Pocket, he will now easily find fit, as will not only afford him a reawhere it is to be sold; he may now,

fonable Interest for his Money emI believe, find it out in any Street or ployed in that Way, but also a rea. Village, even where he is an utter B sonable Infurance for the Risk he Stranger; for moft of those little runs, by some of his Customers beShops that now fell it despise Infor- coming infolvent. mations, because they have nothing Thele two Observations being preto lose, and are sensible, that no mised, my Lords, I shall fuppose, Man will become an Informer, when that a Distiller has 6d. Profit upon he is fure he can get nothing but every Gallon of those Liquors he Contempt by his Information. C fells for 18d. per Gallon, and that

As we find it impossible to prevent this is the lealt any Distiller can af. this private Retail, there is no Me- ford to sell it for, allowing him a thod for preventing Peoples comply. reasonable Intereft for the Shilling it ing with their Inclinations, but by costs him, and a reasonable Insurance raising the Price so as to put the fre- for the Risk he runs of losing that quent Purchase, or the Purchase of Shilling by the Insolvency of his a large Quantity, out of their Reach ; D Customer; for considering the low and this will, in fome Measure, be People Distillers deal with, this Risk the Effect of this Bill. A noble muft certainly be very great. But Lord has already demonftrated, that after this Bill is passed, we must conit will raise all Spirituous Liquors, at fider, that every Gallon of the same leaft a Penny in a Pound, above what Sort of Liquor will cost the Distiller they are now fold for; but, in my 18d. and that he now risks 18d. Opinion, he has stated the advanced E whereas he before risked but a ShilPrice too low, and I shall beg Leave ling; therefore he must now fell at to give your Lordships my Reasons a Profit higher than what he did befor thinking so. I must join with fore in Proportion, that is to say, as him in fuppofing, that all Spirituous he had before 6d. Profit upon a ShilLiquors, especially that Liquor called ling Advance, he must now have gd. Gin, are now sold as cheap, both Profit, because he vances 18d. and by the Distiller and Retailer, as they F consequently must now fell for 25. can posibly afford to sell them ; for and 3d. what he before sold for 18d. tho' there be a Mystery in the Trade The Case will be the fame, my of Distilling, and tho it requires a Lords, with regard to the Retailer, very large Stock to begin with, yet for his Profit must likewise be inthere are now, and have been for creased in Proportion to his Advance. many Years, such Numbers of Peo- To illustrate this, I shall fuppose, ple in that Way of Business, that we G that he now sells for half a Crowa must fuppose, they all fell now as by Retail, a Gallon of those Spirits, cheap as they can'; because in every for which he pays but 184. to the Sort of Manufacture, where there Distiller ; for as his Riks is greater,

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and as he must maintain his Family his Spirits weaker, I shall not say by his retail Trade, his Profits must worse, because the weaker they are, be larger than the Distiller's in Pro. 1 think, they will be the better ; portion. Now after this Bill is paft- and both the Distiller and Retailer ed, he muft pay, as I have fhein, will advance thcir Price by flow De70 the Distiller 25. 3d. for what coft grees, tho' they suffer in the mean him before but 18.1. Do your Lord. A Time: Nay, both will continue to Thips think, he will add to his retail fell at a little less Profit, in ProporPrice ne more than the additional tior, than they do at this Time ; but 94. he pays to the Diltiller, and, they cannot continue long to sell at confequently, sell at 35 per Gallon great deal less, because they would by Retail? No, my Lords, he will be ruined if they did; therefore, expect, and willl take a Profit in Pro- their chief Art, I believe, will be portion to his Advance, at the same B to lower the Quality of the Spirit, Rate as formerly, and, consequently, and, consequently, it will not be of muit have 45d. for what he before fuch mischievous Consequence, either fold for half a Crown. But this is to the Health or the Morals of the net all: As he is now to pay 205.

People. yearly for a Licence, he will expect However, my Lords, notwithstand. 2 proportionable Profit

upon

ing all the Arts they can use, notand will, upon that Account, make C withstanding their lowering the Quaan Addition to his retail Price, to lity of the Liquor, they must foon the Amount, I believe, of at least come to sell å dearer; because, if d. a Gallon; for as he will, I fay., they should lower it too much, the expect a proportionable Profit upon Consumers would become sensible of whai he pays for a Licence, he must it, and might perhaps entirely give -make at least 333. and 4d. a Year over the Ule of it. I therefore think by this additional Advance in his re D it demonstrable, that this Bill must tai! Price, and at 3d. a Gallon mult raise the Price, which must neceslatell very near three Pints a Day, in rily diminish the vicious Use of these order thereby to raise 335. 41. in a Liquors among the Poor: Whether Year; so that, according to this Cal- this Advance in the Price will quite culation, the Spirits which are now abolish this Vice, at least among the fold by Retail for half a Crown a Poor, is what we are to try by this Gallon, will, after this Bill is passed, E Experiment: If it does not, we may be sold for 45.

next Year add 64. more; but we These Calculations I make, my

Mould not do it at once, because, as Lords, from the known Practice and there is a necesary, as well as a viCourse of Trade ; and from hence cious Ule of Spirituous Liquors, we you nicy see the Reason why, when should load the necesary Ule no faryou lis a Tax upon any Commo. ther than we find, by Experience, to siy, the Dealers must lay a great F be ablolutely requisite for preventing deal more, so that the advanced Price the vicious Use of those Liquors, apiid by the Conlaner, wil always mong our poor Labourers and Ma. be more than double the Tax you nufacturers. impole. But I h:11 noc fay, that

Claudius Marcellus, in the Character The advanced Price upon Gin to be

of the Earl of Sandwich, spoke occasioned by this Bill, will rise quite

next to this Effect. o high as I have calculated. Both G the Distiller and Retailer will ule all

My Lords, the Arts they can, to prevent the Cannot help observing, that every Contumers from being sensible of the Word said by the noble Duke, Advance. The Distiller will make

1744 C.

when

I

when rightly understood, is in Fa- Gin is not a Necessary, but a Luxvour of the Motion, and yet he de. ury of Life; for when a Dram of figned it, I believe, againit the Mo- any Spirituous Liquor happens to be tion, because he feems to be an Ad- absolutely necessary, which, I believe, vocate for the Bill. It has been af- is seldom, if ever, the Case, even the ferted by several Lords who have poorest Person may get one single spoke against the Bill, that it will A Dram of Brandy or Rum: If he not raise the Price of Spirituous Li- fhould have no Money to pay for it, quors to the Consumer, and they nor Credit for three Half-pence, fome have given ftrong Reasons for what good-natur'd Person would let him they allert: On the other hand, the have it out of Charity ; therefore, noble Duke alerts, that it will raise Gin can in no Case be said to be a the Price very considerably to the Neceffary of Life ; and this the DifConsumer; and has given us some B tillers and Retailers both very well very ingenious Calculations to prove know. If it were a Necessary of his Affertion. Is not this Contra- Life: If it were a Commodity which riety of Opinions, the strongelt Ar- few or none could be without, his gument that can be made use of in

Grace's Calculations might hold pretFavour of the Motion? For, surely, ty just ; for in such Things, the the Distillers and Retailers are better Dealers are always ready to take - Judges of this Fact than any of your C Advantage of any Pretence for rail

Lordships can be. Let us therefore ing the Price of the Commodities agree to the Motion, that we may they deal in; but with regard to the

have an Opportunity to examine some Luxurics of Life, especially those · Distillers and Retailers, or at least the Poor only riot in, they must be some of them who have already made cheap as well as agreeable, otherwise Eftates and given over the Trade. If the Poor must give over their RiotI were a Friend to this Bill,' and D ing; and therefore, if you lay a were convinced of the Truth of what Tax upon them, the Dealers must the noble Duke asserts, I am sure, I çither content themselves with a less should be a hearty Friend to this Profit, or give over the Trade, and Motion, because I soald from thence the former they will always chule expect, that all Cavilling or Oppo- rather than the latter : They will fition to my favourite Bill would be never give over the Trade, unleis at an Eed; and therefore, if I were E you lay such a Tax as amounts very not very well convinced of the no

near to a Prohibition. ble Dake's Candour, and of the Now I am up, my Lords, I must Candour of every Lord who has take Notice of one Argument in famade use of the same Argument, I vour of this Bill, which has not been, 1hould suspect, from their Opposition I think, fully answered. It has been to this Motion, that upon this To.said, that the present Prohibition is pick they spoke against Self-convic. F of no Manner of Signification : That tion,

Retailers reckon it of no Value, beI shall not repeat what has al. cause Gin is now fold as cheap by ready been urged by other Lords, Retail, as it eyer was before the Pro. for proving, that this Bill will not hibi:ion. It may perhaps be now Taile che Price to Consumers, but sold as cheap by Retail as ever it was only lefsen the Profits of the Distiller, before ; but this is no Proof that Re. and Retailer ; but in Answer to the G tailers

put no Value upon

the present noble Duke's Calculations, I must Prohibition, or upon the Rilk they defire him to recollect what has been are chereby expoled to. It is only a alrçady faid, that the Liquor called Proof of what Diftillers and Retailers

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of Gin will do, rather than risk losing and such a small Sum of Money, or their Trade, or discouraging the Con- such a small Fund of Credit, will sumption, by raising the price. This enable a Man to comply with the is therefore a full Confusation of all first Temptations, that, without rethe Calculations the noble Duke was flecting, he is led into a Habit which pleased to make, and, I think, an prevents his being able to resist any evident Proof, that the Price will not A future Temptation, as long as he has be raised to Consumers by this Bill ; a Halfpenny, or Credit for a Halffor furely the Risk of losing an Han- penny, in the World. Nay, when dred Pounds, or even of going to the

this Habit prevents his getting any Correction-House, for every Dram: Money in an honest Way, it puis a Man fells, is worthmore than him upon thieving, house-breaking, 62. à Gallon, and 205. a Year for or robbing, in order to get Money a Licence; because, tho' there has B for satisfying its continual Cravings. been of late a Sort of Suspension of How pernicious then must it be, to this penal Law, yet no Man could let loose 50,000 Tempters, and conknow when the Execation of it would sequently Devils, upon the poor Peo-: be resumed; and when he thought pie of this Nation? For every Man himself molt secure, the Commis: who takes out a Licence, unless he, honers might be, for what he knew, bell Man of more Probity than usual employing People to watch and in- C in this Age, will endeavour to tempo forn againit him. But the Truth, I his Neighbours, and every Man that believe, is, when this Prohibition comes into his House, to drink Spifirit took place, the Distillers all low- ricuous Liquors to Excess. ered their Prices to the Retailers, iri fent, tho' we have many Retailers of order to encourage them to run the Spirituous Liquors, yet they are in a Ris. of Retailing without raising the continual Fear, which keeps them Price. This I shall not assert, but it D under a Restraint: They dare not is a Fact we ought to inquire into; provoke Men to an Excess in such because, if the Distillers then lowered Liquors, left Resentment, and the the Price to Retailers, above 6d. a Qualms they feel next Day, should Gallon, all Sorts of home made Spi

induce some of them to become In. rits will be sold cheaper to the

foriners; but give these Retailers Consumer after this Bill is passed, once a Licence, they will then tempt than ever they were before ; which E by Authority, and without Fear : is a new Argument for the present. Their Invention will be always upon Motion, and upon Inquiry, may come

the Rack, in order to draw Cultoout to be a most unanswerable Argu- mers to their House, and to lead ment against the Bill.

thore Customers into Excess ; so that The noble Duke was in the right, we Thall for the future have always to pass over fo cursorily the many

two Armies in the field, and both Temptations that will be introduced F maintained at the Expence of the by this Bill ; for the Introduction of People: One to fight against the Desuch Temptations is a moft pernicious vil, and the other to fight under his Thing in any Society. "Tis true, Banner: The former I shall always when a poor Man has neither Money have a due Reverence for, the latter cor Credit, he cannot comply with I shall heartily abhor ; but, I do not the Temptation; let it be never fo think, you will do Justice to the fortrong ; but no poor Man can be re-G mer, if you allow the latter to beduced to this wretched State, with- come too numerous ; and therefore, out having been led away by many if you pass this Bill, I hope, you former Temptations of the fame Kind; will add a Clause, for restraining the

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