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begged pardon, he knew he was irregular; | much to ask, that the House should sit tohe would go further, and say, he saw no pro-morrow, when the Minister would, according bability of being able to make any communi- to all probability, be able to state to the House cation whatever to the House to-morrow: that that decisive result for which the House and was his opinion; but if he thought there was the public had so long and so anxiously a chance of that, he should think it incumbent waited? Let the House remark the difference on him to make a motion to adjourn to Mon- of the situation now and that of last Friday. day next, because he could not reconcile it to On last Friday the Minister told the House what was due to the dignity of the House, or that no intelligence could arrive that night, an to the feelings of this country, that the House assertion falsified by the event; for intelligence should sit on an unusual day, for the mere did arrive, and at the very same time when chance of a communication. The present the Minister said there was none. The Mini. motion was not formal or regular, and on ster had said to-night, he was glad the House which, therefore, no proceeding could be had. did not sit on Saturday last; and he seemed to congratulate the House that it did not assemble; and as a Minister he seemed to express a great deal of desire to impress the House with an idea of mystery, and to create alarm, for he had expressed much apprehension from the consequences which might have followed if the House had sitten on Saturday. What these consequences might have been, besides the public deriving information from the proper channel, he was unable to compre hend. Now the House was told, that inform

Mr. GREY said that the motion of the Noble Lord was in such a form, that the House could not, consistently with its rules and with striet propriety, adopt it; but after that motion was disposed of in point of form, the House would have to consider whether it ought, under the present extraordinary circumstances, to adjourn to Monday, or to sit to-morrow. When assertions came from such authority as that of the Rt. Hon. Gent. they came with great weight: if he was convinced that no commu-ation could not be given to-morrow; he nication could in fact be made from his Majesty to the House to-morrow, he should accede to the motion of adjournment to Monday; but when the Rt. Hon. Gent. expressed some doubts upon that matter, and as it might happen that the House might require some information which the Rt. Hon. Gent. might think it improper for him to communicate, he owned he had some doubts as to the propriety of adjourning even to Monday. He wished the House to recollect a little the situation in which it was: it was now a week since the Rt. Hon. Gent. made an important and alarming communication, which disappointed the House of almost all hopes of an amicable termination to the negotiation. Since that, the Rt. Hon. Gent. stated to the House, that unforeseen and unexpected circumstances had prevented Lord Whitworth from leaving Paris on the Wednesday, yet that matters would in a few days come to a decisive issue, and that he expected information in a few days. Now he wished the House to consider its situation, and to examine into the propriety of adjourn ing over to-morrow. He knew that on the day when the Rt. Hon. Gent. had stated that Lord Whitworth was expected to have left Paris, intelligence had arrived to certain Members of that House, that night while the House was sitting; he had received intelligence himself that very night in the House, that Lord Whitworth had not left Paris, for the truth of which, if doubted, he could appeal to many of his friends about him. Now he wished to know how the Rt. Hon. Gent. could be sure that the decisive result, of which he had spoken, would not arrive here to-morrow? How could he say that such decisive result might not actually arrive this night before the House adjourned? Why, then, was it too

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hardly saw why not; he thought there was every probability that the messenger would arrive this night or to-morrow morning. How then could the House be said to be in a state in which an important communication might not be made to it to-morrow? "No," said the Minister-and why? "Because, forsooth, my Lord Whitworth is not arrived in this coun try." Now the House would recollect, the Rt. Hon. Gent. told them last Friday, that all the papers by which information was to be conveyed, were actually in the press. He should be glad to know, as Ministers were in possession of that decisive result which the Rt. Hon. Gent. talked of, why should not the anxiety of the House and of the public be relieved? he could not comprehend that the arrival of my Lord Whitworth could be essen tial for that purpose. But the communication may be such as that his Majesty's Ministers might not wish to lay too soon before the House: to which he would answer, any information was better than suspense; and all the arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if indeed that could be called argument which consisted only of assertion, stood on the supposition of an unforeseen result, which he hoped was not hostile, but which would perhaps lead to hostility; but if that decisive result should be, what he hoped it would be, for our honour and satisfaction, he should not think the time of the House misspent in waiting for such result. But Saturday was an unusual day for the House to sit. He would not he would observe, that it was by no means go over that argument much at length, but uncommon for the House to sit on a Saturday, for the purpose of transacting very common and ordinary, and sometimes even private bu siness. Upon these grounds he must say, that

he was not satisfied by what he had heard from the Minister, concerning the propriety of the House adjourning until Monday. The Rt. Hon. Gent. said there was no probability of any information arriving to enable his Majesty to make a communication to the House to-morrow, and that such communication could not be made until my Lord Whitworth arrived in this country: if this was the rule by which we were to judge, he saw no reason to conclude that we may not be in the same situation next Friday as we are at this moment.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then referred to the Chair, on the subject of the regularity of the motion now before the House.

The SPEAKER said, that before the debate proceeded any further, he rose to say, that in the form of the question proposed by the Noble Lord to be put to the House, he was not prepared to state to the House, from his own memory or reading, any one instance, except that of last Friday, of such a motion being offered to the House in such terms, and it did not appear to him to be consistent with the orders and forms of the proceedings of the House.

the question now before the House, he was still of opinion that it would be better that the House should sit to-morrow, but, for the reasons he should give, he was determined to give no vote upon the subject. After the vote he gave on Friday last, he found himself in a situation he did not expect; he had stated in the few observations which he had submitted to the House upon that occasion, that it was by no means his intention to prejudge the general question, but when he came to vote, he found himself voting with Gentlemen who were generally considered as the systematic cry of "Order")-he meant that they were opposers of Government (Here there was a always in the habit of opposing Ministers, and therefore he was sorry he had given that vote, degree, prejudged the question. as it might appear as if he had, to a certain

consequence of some observations which had Mr. Fox said he rose to say a few words in fallen from the Hon. Gent. and which appeared to him to be a little singular. The Hon. Gent. lamented that he had been induced to vote on Friday last, with those whom he characterized as the systematic opposers of Ministers; but as the Hon. Gent. had stated, that he had voted upon the merits of the question, he did such strong marks of penitence. If the Hon. not think that the vote he had given called for Gent. felt such concern for once voting with the systematic opposers of Ministers, he might frequently be placed in an unfortunate situation, because whenever these systematic opposers happened to agree in opinion with him, he would be under the necessity of not voting for a question which he approved, or he must vote in company he did not like. But how ever unpleasant the Hon. Gent.'s situation would be in that point of view, it would be still more so if he should happen to take a si

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Hon. Member who had just sat down had stated, and stated truly, that on Monday last he informed the House, that probably the discussion at Paris would be brought to a decisive result in the course of a few days, that of the following day, or Wednesday morning: it was perfectly true he had said so, and he was justified in expressing that conviction, but circumstances had occurred which did produce some delay, but which delay would be inconsiderable; what these circumstances were, he was sure the House would not ask him to dis-milar dislike to the systematic supporters of close, but it was on those circumstances of that delay, that he should desire the Noble Lord to withdraw his motion, and then move that of which he had this night given notice.

The Noble Lord's motion was then withdrawn.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, "That the House should at its rising "adjourn to Monday next."

Mr. HENRY LASCELLES said he wished to say a few words, merely to defend his own consistency with reference to the vote which he gave on Friday last, and to the conduct he should adopt this night. When the question of adjournment was proposed on Friday last, he gave his vote upon the best judgment be could exercise upon the merits of the question, and he was still of opinion, that in giving the yote he did upon that occasion, he had acted consistently with his duty. With respect to

Ministers, for then it would be extremely difficult for him to decide how he should vote. The Hon. Gent. had shewn much more penitence upon the occasion than in his opinion it voted according to the best of his judgment required, because he had declared, that he had upon the merits of the question. How such could not immediately discover, because he a vote could be a subject of lamentation, he always understood that to be the way in which Members of Parliament ought to vote upon also to labour under some apprehension that every question. But the Hon. Gent. seemed question; how the Hon. Gent. came to enterhe might be supposed to have prejudged the tain such an apprehension, he could not imagine, because there was not one word said upon the question of peace or war, in the dis cussion to which the Hon, Gent. alluded. If, however, the Hon. Gent. had prejudged the question by his vote that day, it would gratify his curiosity very highly, if the Hon. Gent, would tell him on which side he had prejudged

the negotiation until Lord Whitworth arrived at Dover; but he begged the House to recollect, that there was another alternative: suppose the messenger should fortunately bring the intelligence that all the differences were settled, would it not be material that the House should receive a communication tomorrow, rather than on Monday? and certainly it could not be doubted that that House was the proper channel of communication between the King and his subjects. He did not mean to throw any blame upon the Rt. Hon. Gent. but he could not help observing that he had been mistaken in his expectation three or four times; but as it arose from circumstances which he could not foresee, it certainly was not a ground upon which any blame could be attributed to him. With regard to the delay which had taken place in Lord Whitworth's departure, he was of opinion that that Noble Lord had acted in a most judicious manner, in deviating from the instructions which it was generally supposed he had received, and he could not help hoping that it might tend to a more favourable issue of the discussion. Upon these grounds, he was of opinion that the House ought to meet to-morrow, though he should not take the sense of the House upon it.

it, for without some farther information he was really unable to form a guess upon the subject. Did the Hon. Gent. apprehend, that by voting with the systematic opposers of Ministers, who were generally considered as strong advocates for peace, he might be supposed to have prejudged the question in favour of peace? If that was the cause of the Hon. Gent.'s alarm, he had only to look at some of the company with whom he voted that day, and his apprehensions would vanish. There were some Gentlemen who sat towards the lower end of the House, to whom, he believed, the epithet of "bloodhounds" had, in some publication, been applied, who had voted with him on that occasion, and if they were at all culpable, it was not from any extraordinary anxiety which they had evinced for the maintenance of peace. He would not, however, investigate this subject any longer; he could only say, that he was utterly unable to conceive what was the ground of the Hon. Gent.'s repentance, or on which side he had prejudged the question: with regard to himself, he should prove his consistency by voting in the same way that he had done upon a former occasion. The Rt. Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had laid down a principle to which he could by no means accede, viz. that no communication could be made to the Lord HAWKESBURY said he should adopt House till Lord Whitworth had arrived. If the same line of conduct, and upon the same that was a regular principle always to be acted grounds, that he had upon Friday last, viz. upon, he could not account for what had that it was not usual to sit on Saturday, unless fallen from the Rt. Hon. Gent. on Monday there was public business of great importance, last. He then said that the discussions would or even private business, where the object was be brought to an issue on Tuesday or Wed- to have some proceeding, or to take some nesday, and that he would be enabled to make step; but when it was proposed to sit witha communication in a few days, meaning evi-out the possibility of any proceeding on the dently in the course of the present week; though supposing Lord Whitworth had left Paris on Wednesday morning, it was not probable that he would reach London in the course of this week. It was therefore pretty evident that the Rt. Hon. Gent. was not quite 60 much attached to this point of form on Monday last as he now appeared to be. The Rt. Hon. Gent. had said, that circumstances had arisen which led him to expect that the answer would not come so soon as he had expected, and which circumstances were in some degree the ground of his present motion. He could not guess what those circumstances were, nor did he wish the Rt. Hon. Gent. to explain them if it was improper; but certainly if the points in discussion were to be decided on Friday, the intelligence might reach this country to-night or to-morrow morning; and certainly if there was any thing to communicate, the House ought to be at its post to receive it. He did not mean to enter into the question of decorum, but it certainly was no unimportant matter that the House and the country should know its fate with regard to the question of peace or war as soon as possible. It had been said that no communication could be made respecting the rupture of

part of the House, he thought it more consistent with the dignity of the House that they should follow the usual course, and adjourn till Monday. His Rt. Hon. Friend had not stated that there was no probability of any communication to-morrow; he had only said, that there was no probability of a communication from his Majesty: and he did not think it consistent with the dignity of the House, that they should depart from their usual mode of proceeding, merely in the expectation of receiving an oral communication, upon which no proceeding could be had. It was perfectly true, that since the declaration of his Rt. Hon. Friend on Monday last, a probability of delay had occurred, but he hoped it would not be a delay of many hours; it was owing to circumstances which it was not necessary now to explain. The Hon. Gent. had stated, that there were two alternatives, and that the issue might be in favour of peace, which might be immediately communicated to the House. But even in that case, he was not aware how any official communication could be made to the House, because he believed, though he did not speak with perfect certainty, that it was not usual for his Majesty to communicate the result of any treaty that was concluded until it was

actually ready to be laid before the House. In
the event, therefore, of a satisfactory arrange-
ment, he did not see that it could lead to an
official communication to-morrow.
these circumstances, he saw no possible bene-
Under
fit that could result from sitting to-morrow,
thinking, as he did, that the mere chance of
an oral communication was not a sufficient
ground to justify the House in departing from
its usual mode of proceeding.

Mr. MARTIN (of Tewkesbury) said, he was disposed to think favourably of the present Ministers till he heard something to induce him to change his opinion. He only wished to ask them what evil could result from their sitting to-morrow, and to beg them to consider whether something might not occur that might draw upon them the displeasure of the country and the House.

was

from a regard to the recommendation contained in his Majesty's speech, but that a foundation might be laid for another measure given notice in the previous part of the ses of very great importance, of which he had sion: he meant to allude to the extension of the system of bonding and warehousing, the beneficial effects of which had already been experienced, and which could not be reduced to practice till the previous measure Hon. Member had made respecting the tonadopted. As to the observations which the nage duty, it was unnecessary for him to enter into any detail. The Hon. Gent. having, un der the present situation of the country, agreed to withdraw his opposition, it was not parti cularly incumbent on him to attempt a formal justification of the policy or the expediency of the duty even during the continuance of peace, The Hon. Member had thrown out a sugges tion about the propriety of dividing the reso

Dr. LAWRENCE said a few words, after lution respecting the continuance of this duty which the motion was agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

from the other parts of the bill, founded on the schedule. This was not the stage of the business in which this suggestion could best be considered; whatever observations he had to offer on the subject would apply with much if the House should suffer the bill to be intromore effect on the second reading of the bill, duced, or rather in the committee, when the different articles to which the bill referred would come to be particularly considered. Gentlemen, by consenting to go into the committee, did not pledge themselves to the approbation of any specific parts of the schedule. All that they did was to admit the propriety of the principle of consolidation, reserving to themselves the full right of examining minutely the different parts of a bill by which this consolidation was to be effected, and proposing any amendment which to them appeared the best calculated to promote the general object with the least possible inconvenience.

Tuesday, May 17.-(See Minutes, p. 814.) [CONSOLIDATING CUSTOMS.]-General GASCOYNE rose to make a few observations. He did not mean in any case to object to the principle of the bill. It was to the tonnage duty being made a permanent tax in time of peace that his objections principally applied. Under the existing circumstances of the country, and after the communication which was yesterday made to the House, it was not his intention to oppose the continuance of the tax. He could not help thinking, however, that into any bill to be formed on the basis of the schedule now before the House, it would be highly expedient that the duty on tonnage should not be introduced. It would, in his opinion, be much better that this should be made the subject of a separate bill, and he should hereafter take an opportunity of follow-view of obtaining some information how far ing up this suggestion by a specific proposition. There were several parts of the schedule on which he meant to deliver his sentiments; and though he should not oppose the present motion, he begged it to be understood that he reserved to himself the right of combating their expediency on any future occasion.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER appealed to the House, whether he had ever discovered any thing like a disposition to prevent Members from having a full opportunity to consider the different articles which the schedule contained. It would also, he was sure, be admitted that he had never pressed the discussion while the circumstances existed which rendered a fair discussion impossible. He felt, however, the necessity and the propriety of carrying through the measure with all possible expedition. This was necessary, not only

General GASCOYNE rose again, with the

there was any plan of applying a similar measure of consolidation to the duties of excise, and other branches of the public revenue.

reply, stated his resolution to apply the same
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
measures to the branches of the revenue to
that the measure should be introduced before
which the Hon. Member alluded. He meant
the close of the session, but he would not
pledge himself to any particular period.

Mr. Dent and the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
After a few words of conversation between
which we could not overhear distinctly, the
House resolved itself into the committee.

dressed the committee in a short speech, in
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ad-
which he touched on several of the most im-

the ground of any fair objection. On all indigo imported, whether from the plantations or from the East Indies, there was to be a diminution of the duty. To every department of the dyeing trade, this would operate as a very important accommodation. On cotton wool imported, the proposed duty was to be one penny per pound. It had formerly been subject to a duty of three halfpence per pound; and though he was sensible that there were objections to the duty being laid on the raw material instead of the manufactured article, yet, after a full consideration of the subject, he was of opinion that the manner in which the

portant alterations which the schedule proposed. Very considerable alterations were proposed to be introduced into the schedule as it now stood. As he had formerly stated to the House, there was intended to be in many articles a large addition of duty, and in others, a very considerable reduction. It was meant that the duties on wines in the port of London and the out-ports should be equalized, and that the duty should in every instance be similar. It was somewhat difficult to see what were the principles which had in the first instance given rise to the distinction of duties: whatever the principles of this distinction were, however, they did not exist at the pre-duty was to be imposed, was one which opesent moment. It was usual that in the port rated with the lightest pressure. At all events, of London the duty on each pipe of wine whatever objections existed could be urged should be 1l. 10s. higher than in the out-ports. with much greater propriety when the bill Whatever were the circumstances which sug. was regularly before the House. On the subgested the propriety of this arrangement, theject of the importation of Bandana handkersituation of the country was now such as to chiefs and silk lace, there was a strong necesrender its continuance unnecessary. The con- sity for putting a check to that system of smugsumption of wine was now by much more ge- gling which was the ground of very general neral than at any former period, and the means complaint. On bale silk it was proposed that of conveying it from the out-ports to the inte- there should be a duty of 20 per cent.; and on rior of the country were much increased. The the article of Bandana handkerchiefs, of 25 propriety of equalizing the duties had there- per cent. besides 2 per cent. on warehousing, fore given rise to the intended equalization. which was conceived to be adequate to the The book of rates, in stating the amount of protection of the fair trader, as far as that the duties payable on skins and furs, was not could be affected by positive duties. The du founded on any regard to the real value of the ties on the importation of hemp from America articles. A change was to be introduced, which and the East Indies were to be diminished. would remedy this inconvenience, and make The difference with respect to the amount of real value the standard of taxation. In the the revenue would not be a consideration. It year 1795, certain duties were imposed on the was thought proper, however, that encourageimportation of wood; these were to be con- ment should be held out to the importation of tinued, with the exception of certain exemp- this article, an article at all times of great imtions, in favour of timber for ship-building. portance, but particularly so under the cirThe duties on the importation of chemical oils cumstances in which this country was likely to were intended to be increased. This increase be placed. On Italian wines it was proposed was founded on a wish to give encouragement that the duty should be the same as the duty to the use which might be made of the pro now payable on port wine. On linen yarn duce of the Spice Islands. Since our acquisi- imported the duty was to be sixpence instead tion of Ceylon, the quantity of spices which of one shilling per cwt.; but this was to be might be applied to the purpose of obtaining counteracted by a new additional duty on naressential oils was so great, as powerfully to row linen cloths. As to the duty on tonnage, suggest the propriety of granting this encou- after the declaration made by the Hon. Gent. ragement. On the importation of diamonds he thought it unnecessary to take up the time and precious stones, there was to be imposed of the committce by going into any minute a duty of five per cent. ad valorem. On many statement of the reasons which would have inunenumerated articles of East India produce duced him to propose its continuance, even as there was to be a reduction from 71 per cent. a permanent tax, during peace. He could to 20 per cent.; and on articles imported from not help stating, however, for his own satisChina the reduction was proposed to be from faction, and the satisfaction of the House, that 109 to 50 per cent. The duties on East India the view which he had on a former occasion calicoes were to be reduced from 125 to 50 given of the flourishing state of the trade of per cent. ad valorem. The Rt. Hon. Gent. the country was strictly consistent with truth. explained the proposed arrangements with a The trade of the country had indeed, for the degree of minuteness into which we conceive last fourteen or fifteen years, been experien it unnecessary to follow him, and therefore we cing, whether in peace or in war, a gradual only profess to give the general results. He and constant increase. He was happy to be alluded to an addition of two shillings to the able to assert with confidence, that, during existing duty of twenty shillings on East India the last year, the same increase had been ob sugar. When the increase of freight and other servable. In proof of this, he had only to call favourable circumstances were considered, he the attention of the committee to the number did not think that this was an increase to be of British and foreign ships which had during

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