since that period, the Noble Lord alluded to had uniformly made a difference between the estimate in time of peace and that of war, and that the 500,000l. a year from the Company to the public could never be thought of until a time of peace; and yet the Hon. Gent. had roundly aid that that Noble Lord had made no difference between peace and war in the statement of the affairs of the East India Company; but then this came from a Gentle man who was not quite infallible.

they added to their capital or not, they would in time of war, have one million, in time of peace two millions, applicable to the reduc tion of their debt annually, after providing for all their engagements.

Mr. METCALFE proceeded to answer the observations of Mr. Francis: he said they were unfounded, and he defied that Hon. Member to shew wherein the statement now upon the table was false. He had abused all the India Company; he had said they had fabricated accounts, for the purpose of deceiving the public with a false balance: he would tell that Hon. Member that he had asserted this incor

Sir F. BARING observed, that the Noble Lord who had brought forward this important business had speculated upon some topics in which he could not follow him; but the No-rectly; and he would tell him further, that ble Lord had an ardent mind, and took upon every Member of the Court of Directors of himself a burden which another had staggered the India Company was as incapable as he was under for many years. The Noble Lord of making out a false account for the public, who had so long had the superintendence of or of imposing on any body. He denied this the affairs of the Company, had some time charge, and he told that Hon. Gent. that he since published something of a political testa- could not prove it. He would also ask whe ment: he had stated that the Company, by ther it was likely that this was a fabricated ac great exertions in time of peace, might pay count on the part of the Company? Had it off one million annually. The Company had been fabricated, they would have made it in entertained an idea of doing this in a more their own favour; whereas this was against vigorous manner, and instead of paying off themselves, and in favour of the public. He one million, to pay two millions annually, and wished Gentlemen to take some care of what not to create one penny additional stock. The they said: that Hon. Gent. best knew why he Noble Lord's predecessor, in his calculation made this attack on the Directors of the East for the thirteen years, never alluded to the India Company; but this he knew, it was no 500,000l. participation of the public, which light matter to charge them with fabricating the Noble Lord this night promised to the false accounts for purposes of deception. The public. He believed, that in a few years the Hon. Bart. who had lately spoken had differed public would have the gratification of seeing in some points from the Noble Lord who had that paid, provided peace continued. His brought this subject forward; but then he had principal reason for rising was, to take notice too much candour and liberality to charge the of what the Noble Lord said respecting the accounts as being false to deceive any body. increase of capital stock, or debt. That was The truth of the matter was, that the real a matter which the Court of Directors would situation of the affairs of the Company had receive with great reluctance; and by the at- undergone great alteration both at home and tention which the Noble Lord paid to the af- abroad. Now the reverse was the case; for fairs of the East India Company, he would abroad they had debts, and here they were observe, that great progress was made by them rich. For the purpose of military operations, in the payment of their debts in India, with- they were obliged to borrow money on very out raising stock; but the mode proposed disadvantageous terms, and they had increased would be taking money away from commer- their bonded debt, which, in point of sound cial purposes, and applying it to the pay-policy, ought never to have reached its prement of political debts. The capital already in the service of the East India Company was fully adequate to the payment of their debts.

sent state; but the whole account was before the committee, and it was very hard to have it said that they fabricated any accounts: this was an assertion which he did not expect to Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he did not mean hear from any Hon. Gent. of that House. to express any opinion how far it would be Having passed over the accounts of the Comproper for the East India Company to raise pany, he proceeded to take notice of the cafunds, by adding to the capital of the Com-pital of 7,780,000l. which the Hon. Gent, had pany's debt. He had stated, that no more than two millions would be wanted, and that in the worst point of view there would be three millions applicable to the purposes of their commerce. He would not now enter into the question of whether it was expedient to refer to these resources for the payment of their debts; perhaps they might raise their credit by redeemable securities in Europe. The Company had no difficulty; for whether

said was wilfully left out of the account: the fact was, that by an act of the Legislature itself this was guarantied to the Company at twelve millions, and therefore it would be wrong to state it in the account. There was here something which was the reverse of de ception, for being guarantied to the Com pay at twelve millions, it was more in fa vour of the Company than the Hon. Gent. had stated, by the difference between that

proposition on the subject, it could not be ex pected that he should have to trouble their Lordships with any detail thereon, the more especially as the bill was now before a com mittee of the whole House, in which stage of it no efficient alteration could be proposed. With respect to the subject, however, he would then state generally, that he retained those opinions upon which he had formerly avowed, that, with a reference to the present transaction in particular, he was of opinion the illustrious personage who was the object of it was as ill used as any man could be. The bill before the committee would be pro

sum and 7,800,000l. There was now a clear balance in favour of the Company, in comparison of the year 1793, of 2,200,000l. and upwards. He then proceeded to observe on the conduct of the Noble predecessor of the Noble Lord who brought this business forward (Lord Melville), whose whole conduct he approved highly, it being distinguished by the wisdom of an able and upright statesman. The Noble Lord now in the same department was treading in the steps of his most able predecessor, and, from the diligent application of his excellent talents, he might be come his equal; more perhaps was unattainable. But there was much yet to be done inductive of those effects which would disap the subject of Indian politics; and if this point hopes held out, and frustrate expecta pleasing prospect held out, the Company tions formed. Without adverting to the per would be relieved, and the public have a par- sonal feelings of his R. H. upon such an occa ticipation of 500,000l. a year besides. Having sion, it was now, he said, known that the said thus much on the general question before public expectation of seeing him resume that the committee, he must beg permission to say state and splendour with which it was agreed a few words on behalf of the proprietor of on all hands the Heir Apparent to the Crown India stock, at whose risk India had been un- should be invested, would be entirely disapder great agitation, and quartered and di- pointed. He thought the question of the ar vided, but yet preserved to the British em- rears of the dutchy of Cornwall should be le pire. The proprietor had never received more gally decided; the general subject would then than five per cent. for his capital, a sum with come before Parliament in a clearer point of which no shopkeeper in London would be view, and they would be the better able to satisfied. He submitted whether or not it judge what course to take. The bill before would not be wise to take the subject of India the committee would, he contended, not afstock into consideration, and allow the holder ford that relief to his R. H. which it professed: eleven per cent. which he was convinced would that illustrious personage would be left by it, be of ultimate advantage to the public. India at least for some time to come, in that denever could be a drain upon this country, but graded, nay, almost ignominious situation, in might assist it abundantly. The granting of which for a considerable time he would be this eleven per cent. would raise the price of placed. His R. H. it appeared, was so cir stock immediately. Having stated some ad- cumstanced with respect to claims upon him, vantages from this plan, he concluded with that the bill could not have even its proposed observing that India, under wise directions, effect for at least one year and a half. Mimight produce more advantage to this coun-nisters had much better have waited until the try, than it derived from all its other colonies together.

The question was then put and carried, and all the resolutions were voted pro forma. The House being resumed, the Report was received immediately.-Ordered to be taken into further consideration on that day sennight, and that the resolutions be printed

HOUSE OF LORDS.

period of the liquidation of those claims, when they could have effectually come for ward; but though, notwithstanding he felt himself called upon to offer these general observations, yet his principal motive for trou bling their Lordships was, to explain an expression which he made use of yesterday, which then seemed to make some impression upon a Noble Earl, and which appeared to be since, in some degree, misapprehended. Recurring again to the subject of his former animadversions, the Noble Earl observed, that the measure under the consideration of the committee was, like all the other measures of the present Administration, weak, inefficient, futile; in fact, a half-measure, inefficacious as to its object, and falling short of its avowed end. He then adverted to his language of yesterday: he had, he observed, expressed his opinion that the country was in a perilous state; and he would repeat, that the country, under all its present circumstances, was peril. The Earl of CARLISLE rose and observed, ously situated: this idea, however, was pro that after his declaration of yesterday, re-visional. We were to be regarded as on the specting his intention not, under the present circumstances, to bring forward any distinct

Tuesday, March 15. (See Minutes, p. 427.) [PRINCE OF WALES'S ANNUITY.]-The order being read for the committee on the Prince of Wales's annuity bill, the House accordingly resolved into the same, Lord Walsingham in the Chair.

Ön the first clause being read, and the question put,

eve of experiencing an invasion; at least, little less than such a state of things was to be in

tions, however strongly made, did not amount to proof, and that the feelings and opinions of a whole country, or the public, were not to be collected from the sentiments of a few individuals. His Majesty's Ministers held opinions on that point very different from those held by the Noble Earl. He denied that they had forfeited or lost the confidence of the country. As one of those Ministers, he could say, that he had never courted the possession of the

ferred from the tenour of the two Royal communications to Parliament. Thus circumstanced, and when it was considered that the guidance of the affairs of the country was left in the hands of the present Ministers, its situation could be truly said to be no other than perilous. The public, he asserted, did not look up with confidence to the talents and abilities of the present Ministers; the national spirit or the public energy could not be called forth or efficaciously exerted under their aus-office he had then the honour to hold. It had pices. Were men of eminent talents and real abilities as statesmen, called to the guidance of affairs, the situation of the country would be diametrically opposite to that in which it was placed at present: from a state of dismay and despondence, it would pass to one of hope and exultation; public confidence and energy would revive, and we may bid defiance to all the efforts of France, and laugh her menaces to scorn. We may then say, in the concise but comprehensive language of the poet, "Come take!" which he feared we could not do at present. These were his feelings when he used, perhaps hastily, the expression that the country was in a perilous state: under its present rulers he feared it was; but under the guidance of those great characters he had in contemplation, its state would be full of well-founded hope and justly confident expectation.

Lord PELHAM rose to answer some observations which fell from the Noble Earl, the greater part of which, however, were obviously irrelevant to the subject before the committee. With respect to the affairs of the illustrious personage who was the object of the bill, the Noble Earl seemed to be under some misconception, and in obviating which, the Noble Secretary was necessarily led into some detailed exposition of the affair, from the time when the first arrangements were made in 1795 to the present moment; which train of circumstances being already known to our readers, we deem it unnecessary to repeat them. By the operation of the bill of 1795, the debts of his R. H. would not, his Lordship observed, be liquidated before the end of four years, instead of the expiration of a year and a half, as misconceived by the Noble Earl. Much stress seemed to be laid on what fell from Noble Lords supposed to be in habits of communication with his R. H.; but he could state, that, as far as his own observation went, the Prince himself seemed to be very well satisfied with what was proposed by his Majesty's Ministers. The operation of the present bill was to restore to his R. H. the full possession of that income, which, after much deliberation and discussion, was deemed in the year 1795 to be sufficient for maintaining the dignity and splendour of the Heir Apparent. With respect to the other considerations to which the Noble Earl's observations were directed, he would only say, that asser

been his lot to be placed in situations of great public trust and importance, in which situations, as well as in his present, he always exerted his honest endeavours to perform his duty to his Sovereign and to his country in a proper, fair, and unexceptionable manner. That he had filled offices of importance, in situations of extreme peril and danger, fully to the approbation of those by whom he was intrusted, he assumed no personal merit, for it was his duty so to act. The Noble Earl and the House should recollect, that at the time his Majesty's present Ministers were called to their offices, the country was in a state of unprecedented difficulty and peril; and the Noble Earl would do well to recollect the situation in which the country was left by those men of great abilities and eminent talents, when they had retired from their offices.

The Earl of CARLISLE, in explanation, observed, that what he had said relative to the subject regularly before the committee, he merely offered as an independent Member of Parliament, actuated by no other motives than those arising from a sense of his duty to the public and the country. He had had no communication with the illustrious personage on the occasion, who, the Noble Earl repeated, had been ill treated in the present instance, and was, in effect, left by Ministers in that degraded and comfortless situation from which they professed to extricate him. With respect to what had fallen from the Noble Secretary of State relative to the situation of affairs at a former period, he deemed it then unnecessary to expatiate. Though a great deal, he observed, might in ordinary cases proceed upon presumption, yet when the safety and existence of an empire was at stake, such grounds of action should be exploded. With respect to the character and conduct of a certain great and illustrious man, which not only by him, but by the nation in general, was regarded with feelings of gratitude and admiration, he would aver of that great man, he meant Mr. Pitt, that he was the political saviour of his country. This great man was, with others, accused and suspected by Mr. Buonaparté of being concerned in the affair of what he called the infernal machine, for taking away his life. Of this accusation, he believed every honest man would acquit him; but there was another machine, he could not say an infernal, but a very mischievous one, which (so we under

stood his Lordship) possibly he had some concern in, namely, the formation of the present ministry, whose conduct had abundantly compensated Buonaparté for whatever injury he might have sustained from the machinations he at first alluded to.

ing, ordered the Report to be received the next day.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, Mar. 15-(See Minutes, p. 506.)

[IRISH MILITIA.]-The House resolved itself into a committee upon the Irish militia bill.

Mr. WICKHAM moved the insertion of a clause, authorizing the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to cause a sum, not exceeding four guineas, to be paid to each person enrolling himself in the militia of Ireland.

Mr. ELLIOT requested to know, whether this bill was intended to extend to every part of the militia of Ireland, or only to apply to a particular part of that country.

Mr. WICKHAM said this bill was brought in to authorize the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to raise militiamen at four guineas, in conse quence of the difficulty which had been experienced in getting persons to serve, when chosen by ballot; at the same time, it left the Lord Lieutenant the power to get them at a smaller bounty if possible: he however had the privilege to offer every inducement to persons to enter.

The LORD CHANCELLOR answered the remarks of the Noble Earl shortly. He first observed upon the evident irregularity of the greater part of what had fallen from the Noble Earl. Upon the measure itself before the committee, he had applied the general expressions of weak, inefficient, and an halfmeasure; such as, according to the Noble Earl, were all the measures of the present miserable Administration of the country. However, with respect to the bill regularly under discussion, he would tell his Lordship and the committee, that it was such as Ministers, upon a full consideration of the subject, with a reference to the situation of the Prince himself, and their duty to the public, in which view of the subject that situation made a part, thought it advisable and proper to propose. That it was an half-measure, would be contradicted by the very tenour and spirit of his Majesty's message; and the Noble Earl should be aware that there was more real magnanimity and genuine spirit in firmly adhering, against the opinion of others, to a measure which, upon due deliberation, they decided upon as good and serviceable, than there was in leaning to what the precipitation of others may wish to be done. With respect to the general question of confidence to Ministers, he thought precisely with his Noble Friend who spoke second in the debate; and personally to himself he had to observe, that the|blishment of a militia in that country. There favour of his Sovereign had elevated him to that situation which certainly he most coveted, but which at the same time he thought it his duty to his Sovereign, to others, and to his country, to accept of; and he hoped he had honestly and conscientiously performed his duty therein while he held it. With regard to the Noble Earl's explanation of his language of yesterday, he would only say, that he hoped the Administration had shoulders broad enough to bear that and even more. Much was said of the confidence of the country; but that Ministers were not destitute of it was plain, by the almost unanimous approbation of their measures, by that constitutional organ of the nation, the Parliament; those measures were founded in their sense of what they deemed the best interests of their country; and by the decisions of that Assembly, with respect to the wisdom or spirit of their conduct, they would wish to be judged, and not by the observations of individuals.

The clauses and provisions of the bill were then agreed to without further observation from the committee, and the House resum

Mr. ELLIOT observed, that he thought it his duty to make a few observations on this bill before it passed into a law: he thought it would tend to subvert the recruiting service of Ireland. He was not an enemy to the esta

was a practical difference between England and Ireland as to the formation of the militia. In this country, men are chosen by ballot; but in Ireland, it has been formed and con ducted both by ballot and bounty. He thought, and indeed experience had taught him, that if a bounty of four guineas were given to induce men to enter into the militia, it would operate as a great injury to the recruiting service, particularly as so large a number of men as 40,000 were to be raised.

Mr. WICKHAM said he was sure that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Elliot) had not taken the trouble to look over the bill, otherwise he would not now have made those observations on it. It was almost unnecessary to state the manner and method adopted in this country to raise militiamen, as every Gent. in the House knew there was but one; but in Ireland the same method would not effect the establishment of a militia: and he did not hesitate to say, that the militia had not been raised in that country by ballot. In Ireland it was the province of the Lord Lieutenant to procure militiamen in every way that was honourable