To all these arguments, bearing so directly on the point, the reply has been exceedingly faint. Indeed, it could not be otherwise. It is impossible to make something out of nothing.

5. Eph. 1: 10, was the fifth passage relied on by my friend, Mr. Manford. But these points should be established, before it will be in point. 1. It must be shown that the words "might. gather together" mean "shall gather together." 2. It must be established that "gathered together" means saved. 3. It must be proved that "all things in Christ," means all things in the universe, or all things out of Christ, as well as all things in him. But on each of these important points he gives us nothing but assertion. How then does the passage prove his position? It does not prove it at all.

6. Some three passages were quoted to prove that Christ will draw all men unto him, but the words, "draw all men unto me," and the other similar passages quoted, are not exactly synonimous with "holy and happy." None of those passages say any thing about "finally holy and happy." Nor do they mean any such thing, and are therefore not to the point.

7. Finally, the passage found in Rev. 5: 13, is brought into the service. But in quoting this passage, which describes what John saw after the Lamb had taken the book into his hands to open the seals, and before the opening of the seals, and applying it to the resurrection state, he cannot avoid granting that the opening of the seals is after what is described in verse 13. In this, then, he has virtually admitted that the dreadful calamity, at the opening of the sixth seal, will be in the resurrection state. Thus ended his triumphant proof of the finally holy and happy condition of all mankind in the future state.

His

In addition to following him through, and taking from him. every proof-text he has adduced, I have presented several counter proof-texts. The first of these is the "sin against the Holy Spirit." I believe he has done nothing on this passage except to endorse a few words from Dr. A. Clarke. quotation represents Clarke as saying "this world and that which is to come," means the Jewish age and the Christian age. Well, suppose I take him at his word; what then?— Why, then the Savior says, "he who shall sin against the

Holy Spirit shall neither be forgiven in the Jewish age nor the Christian age." If, then, a man was not forgiven in the Jewish age, and is not forgiven in the Christian age, where will he be forgiven? But Mark has not so much as left him room for that little quibble. It is there said, "hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” How did he avoid the force of this language? Why some one says that the passage is wanting in some ancient copy. That is exactly the way I would try to get over it, if I were determined to preach Universalism right or wrong. I would come right up to the point at once, and deny the truth or the divine authority of all such passages. By this attempt he has virtually admitted that this passage disproves his position.

I told you in the outset that he would explain the soul to be the life, before we were through. This he has now done, and thus represents the Redeemer as saying what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his life? The soul, then, is nothing but the breath, as destructionists would say. But if the soul is the breath, or life, what means the other passages: "fear him who, after the body is killed, has power to destroy both soul and body in hell." Is this soul, that can be destroyed in hell after the body is killed, the life? If it is, that life may be punished in hell after the death of the body.

But the gentleman allows that this passage simply asserts that God has power to destroy the soul and body in hell, after the body is killed. He admits, then, that there is a hell in which the soul and body may be destroyed after death.— Very well; we will put that down. But did Jesus teach us to fear where there was no danger? If there is not the least danger of the soul and body being destroyed in hell after death, why fear God on account of his having the power to destroy? Here lies the difficulty. One passage asserts that certain characters shall never be forgiven, but are in danger of eternal damnation; another teaches that a man may lose his soul; and yet another teaches us to fear Him who, after the body is killed, has power to destroy the soul and the body in gehenna.

I maintain that a man cannot be in danger of "eternal damnation," unless there is such a thing to be in danger of; and I maintain that a man cannot be in danger of losing

his soul unless there is such a thing; and the soul and body will not be destroyed in gehenna, after death, unless there is such a place and such a thing. A man may, then, suffer that eternal damnation, which the words of Jesus imply that he hath never forgiveness; and the soul may be lost, both soul and body being destroyed in hell, after the death of the body.

I declare to you, my hearers and neighbors, after applying my mind to the study of the Scriptures for many years, and now reflecting upon them in the most solemn manner, that should I, at death, go into eternity convinced that I was the very person to whom such language applied, I would have no more hope of escaping the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God, than I would have, should our circuit judge lawfully pronounce the sentence upon me that I should hang till I was dead, dead, of escaping that sentence. Indeed, I should not have so much hope, for some do escape such sentences as that just mentioned; but from the all-seeing eye of God's irrevocable justice there is no escape. No deceit or hypocrisy will escape; no cunning and crafty being will be able to avoid justice.

You have now heard us patiently through on two propositions. The only decision you are called upon to make, is simply to decide for yourselves in such a way as you will not have reason to repent of, when you come to die, and at the judgment-seat of Christ. Remember that the infallible word of God promises that if you do his commandments, are faithful unto death, you shall enter by the gates into the city, and have a right to the tree of life, and go out no more forever and ever. Is the ingratitude of your heart such as not to be willing to enjoy happiness forever, simply because God requires you to obey him? Then must you be punished.Even the mightiest spirit that burns before the eternal throne, has to move in perfect subordination to the will of God.Even Jesus, the express image of the invisible God, in whom all the fulness of the God-head dwells bodily, became a little lower than the angels, became obedient unto death, and learned obedience in the things which he suffered; and became the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him. Will you take his example, and learn of him who is meek and lowly, and find rest to your sout? Will you re

member that this is the love of God that you keep his commandments? If you will, the veracity of his word is pledged that you shall be saved. On the other hand, if you feel a spirit of irreconciliation to God, and join in vicious language relative to the very words of Scripture, such as “infernal doctrine of tormenting and burning," as you have heard on the present occasion, you may expect to be subdued by the "fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries.". "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.” And again, "The Lord shall judge his people." Yes, and he will punish the rebellious with that "sorer punishment than death without mercy," which Mr. Manford has failed to point out in this life, and which no man can find short of destroying the soul and body in gehenna, after death.

If I have in any thing trespassed in referring to any point which I ought not in my closing speech, I am perfectly willing that Mr. Manford shall bring it up on to-morrow.

[Time expired.]

PROPOSITION III.

DO THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THAT THOSE WHO DIE IN DISO

BEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL, WILL SUFFER ENDLESS
MENT?

PUNISH

MR. FRANKLIN'S FIRST SPEECH.

RESPECTED AUDIENCE:

The subject we are to discuss to-day is one of fearful magnitude, and I hope, as has been the case with the propositions already discussed, we shall have your most profound attention. My opponent will certainly admit, if I am right in the position I am now about to defend, that all men should know it. You are simply requested, then, to lay aside all prepossessions toouching the matter in debate, and let us hear honestly what the Lord our God has said, touching this great question. We are not here to teach the bible, or rather the Author of the bible, what he ought to teach, or what is befitting his character; but we are here to hear what he does teach, and bow submissively to his authority. Without dctaining you, I will proceed at once to read our proposition. It reads as follows:

Do the Scriptures teach that those who die in disobedience to the gospel, will suffer endless punishment? I affirm, my friend denies.

Although we have a new proposition, placing me in the affirmative, we have no new subject. Our object in having different propositions is simply to elicit argument on all the different points of dispute between us. It is the object of my friend to prove that all the wicked will be saved, and it is my object to disprove it. The object of giving me the affir