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1 should have the means of regulating its own concerns within itself. This had been the practice of ancient times, and was still the practice of other countries. He was a friend to the measure, because it tended to keep the discipline of the church within the church, and lodged discretion where it was right to lodge discretion. As to the point of enforcing the residence of the clergy, the question was, how far it was wise to do things by halves? It was admitted, that the statute of Henry 8th if enforced in full rigour, could only enforce the residence of the clergy; and therefore he would say, the provisions of that statute were worth but little; it reminded him of the power of the groom, who could lead the horse to the water, but could not make him drink when he came there, So here, by the statute of Henry 8th we would compel the clergy to come to their parishes, but could not compel them to perform the functions of their order: so that, by this statute, we had the disgrace of a restriction without any certainty of benefit.

The House then went into the committee,in which the bill underwent a variety of alterations.

Debate in the Commons on the National Debt Reduction Bill.] April 14. The House having resolved itself into a committee on the acts relative to the Reduction of the National Debt,

of posterity. The leading features of the measure he had to submit was that of a consolidation of the public debt, and of the means to be adopted for the purpose of its reduction. It was impossible to look at the interest of the capital of our debt, without feeling a desire to discharge it, with the least possible pressure upon the public. It was impossible to look at the amount of the capital of that debt, without feeling the utmost anxiety, and an earnest desire to accelerate the period of its extinction. The amount of the taxes annually to be raised and permanent, was now about 30,000,000l. The capital of our debt 488,000,000l. The committee would recollect that two measures were adopted for the purpose of reducing our debt; the one in 1786, the other in 1792. The first was for the purpose of reducing the debt by the operation of a fund of one million at compound interest, to a given time, when the amount of it should be four millions. The other was for providing for the discharge of one per cent of every sum thereafter to be borrowed and added to the capital. By the first, it was provided, that at a given period, when the amount of the funds in the hands of the commissioners should be 4,000,000%.

June 9. Sir W. Scott, after lament-the interest of that 4,000,000l. should be ing the slow progress of his bill, said he at the disposal of parliament, and the had given it his best attention, and was plan of the former accumulation should anxious to learn the opinions of others. cease. His proposition was, to prevent The bill was now much superior to the that pause in the operation taking place, one formed according to his own crude and to go on with that fund, together conceptions. However, he should not with the interest to attach to it, with all press the bill farther this session in the the advantages and power of compound hope that it would be revived at an early interest. With respect to the measure of period of the next. 1792, the operation of that fund also for the discharge of one per cent of the whole sum borrowed since that period, he proposed to carry on with the other fund, for the purpose of the extinction of the whole debt. By the operation of these two funds, the probability was, that the whole debt would be paid off in 43 years and two months. That of itself would induce the committee to receive the plan with readiness, and examine it with alacrity. But this was not all for the plan obviated the necessity which would otherwise arise, of providing 900,000l. taxes immediately, to provide for the operation of the one per cent fund of 1792, and also leave a sum little short of 1,500,000l. the difference of the interest when the 5 and the 4 per cents should be paid off, a measure which he believed likely to take place at no very remote

Mr. Chancellor Addington said, that he should at present do little more than move the four Resolutions which he held in his hand. He could not, however, forbear saying a few words respecting the principles on which they were founded. No man could feel more than he did the importance of the obligation we were under to preserve inviolate the system for the redemption of the national debt which was adopted in 1786. Of all the measures that were ever adopted by parliament, no one was more entitled to the admiration of the present age, or the gratitude

period. He should now read his Resolutions. They were as follow:

1. "That it is the opinion of this committee, that the amount of the annual sums applicable, under the acts of the 26th and 32nd of his majesty, to the Reduction of the national debt, as the said sums stood on the 1st of February 1802, if consolidated into one sinking fund, with the additional sum of 200,000l. per annum, and continually applied at compound interest, but without the addition of any sums arising from annuities which may expire, or from savings of interest on annuities which may be reduced, would redeem the whole of the existing capital of the national debt, including the capital to arise from the loan of the present year, within fortyfive years from the present time, and in a shorter period than the whole of the said capital would be redeemed by the separate application of the said annual sums respectively, together with the additional sum of 200,000l. per annum, as well as of one per cent on the capital to be provided for in the present year, and of any other sums which would, by virtue of the said acts, become applicable to the discharge of such capital.

2. "That the additional sum of 200,000l. per annum be granted to his majesty, from and after the 5th of January 1803, to be vested in the commissioners appointed under the said act of the 26th of his majesty.

3. "That it is expedient to provide that the amount of the annual sums applicable under the acts of the 26th and 32nd of his majesty, to the reduction of the national debt, as the said sums stood on the first of February 1802, should be consolidated into one sinking fund, with the additional sum of 200,000l. per annum, and be continually applied at compound interest to the redemption of the whole of the existing capital of the national debt, including the capital to arise from the loan of the present year.

4. "That any sum which may arise from annuities which may expire, or from savings of interest on annuities which may be reduced, shall be applicable to the public service, in such manner as parlia ment shall direct."

May 17. The House having again resolved itself into a committee on the acts relating to the Reduction of the National Debt, the first Resolution was read,

Mr. Boyd said, that, by the mode now proposed, an advantage would be gained over the old sinking fund of 115,000,000l.

Mr. Pitt said, that upon the best consideration he could give the subject, he was inclined to think it would be nearer 150,000,000l.

Mr. Tierney said, it appeared to him, that if the country were soon placed in a state of war, difficulties would arise; bnt that if we continued in a state of peace for forty-five years, the plan proposed would be productive of much greater advantages than the former plan. He wished that calculations might be made with different views of the subject, in order that they might be sure they were accurate.

Mr. Chancellor Addington contended, that though the plan would not be productive of immediate advantages, yet that the effect would be within a given time to promote the liquidation, and ultimately to produce the extinction of the national debt.

Mr. Pitt said, that the effect of the plan would be to improve and invigorate the sinking fund, and enable the country more effectually to support any struggle in which she might hereafter be engaged. The annual saving of 900,000l. must form a powerful resource against the exigen cies of any future war. There certainly would be a period in which the debt would be less rapidly discharged, than by the old method; the progress in the beginning would be slow. The question then was, the time when the quantity of stock to be bought up, according to the present plan, would be greater than by the old sinking fund? From the best calculation he was able to make, that effect would begin to operate in about fourteen or fifteen years: 15 or 16 mil lions would then be in the hands of the commissioners, and be applicable to the public service in case of a new war.

The several Resolutions were agreed to, and a bill ordered to be brought in thereupon.

June 3. The House having resolved itself into a committee on the bill,

Mr. Bankes, after bestowing the highest praise on the establishment of the sinking fund, which he considered the greatest among all the proofs of high talents which Mr. Pitt had given, begged to make a few observations on the present plan, and particularly on the calculations of

way.

the comparative effect of the old and, that these calculations so much relied on the new system. Some confusion had had over-rated it in taking the 3 per arisen with respect to the term "con- cents at 85; for in the circumstances of solidation." The consolidation was, in Europe there was little reason to hope fact, a thing of no advantage in itself, that stocks would hold their present price unless advantage was annexed to it by for so many years. In six years the applying the sinking funds in a different system established by Mr. Pitt would The advantage of the present afford a sum applicable to the public sermeasure consisted in one thing only, vice of the country, or to the reduction of and that was, the saving of one per cent taxes; a reflection of the most consolawhich should have been raised on the tory nature. If the advantages of the loan for the present year, and on the present system were coupled with the capital borrowed on the income tax. former, without any drawback, then inPossibly hereafter this might be con- deed the measure would be beneficial; sidered as a great disadvantage, as by it and a power and force would be given to the public was placed more remote from the machine which would render its opethe period when relief was to be afforded ration rapid and irresistible. Having by the old system. All the advantages thought the institution of the sinking proposed by the new system, might, in fund of 1786 highly advantageous, and fact, be coupled with the old, by which that of 1793 equally so; having thought we should be manifestly in a better situa- that there was nothing on which the tion for a considerable time. In that high character and fair fame of Mr. Pitt case, there would have been an additional rested with so much stability, he could sum of near 900,000l. to operate in con- not consent to a deviation from them for junction with the former sinking funds, a momentary advantage, which was to be till the old sinking fund of 1786 should attended with long and great privations. have attained its maximum in 1808. Conceiving all the advantage that would The saving of the one per cent on the be derived from the measure to be nothing loan of the present year operated as a more than the saving of one per cent on bonus on the measure; but he had great the capital of the loan of the year, the doubts whether it did not take from the saving by the reduction of interest, and general advantage of the reduction of the conversion of higher stock into stock the public debt. By taking all the stock bearing a lower interest, he could not at par, no advantage could be had under persuade himself that the privations the consolidation for 38 years; and taking which it brought on the public would be the 3 per cents and 34 per cents at par, compensated by the benefits which would and the 4 per cents at 75, no advantage result from it. could be expected within 28 years. The old sinking fund would attain its maximum in 1808, and the new sinking funds, under the act of 1793, would reach an equality with it in 1825. There was no doubt that after reaching the equality the advantages would rapidly increase; but till then the public would suffer materially, as well by the privation of the benefits to be derived from the supply, after the sinking funds should have obtained their maximum, as by the interruption of the debt, and the suspicion which monied men might conceive of a departure from the established system of redemption; a suspicion which would render the measure destructive of public credit. The calculations on which the present measure was founded supposed, that taking the 3 per cents at 85, the new and the old debt would be redeemed in 43 years. By the letter of the acts, the debts would be redeemed in 45 years, and there was reason to suspect

Mr. Chancellor Addington said, that his hon. friend had observed that the whole of the advantage of the present measure arose from the relief which it would afford to the public, by saving the imposition of taxes in the present year, to the amount of 900,000l. He did not think his hon. friend had examined the plan with his usual accuracy. What was the effect of the plan, as appeared from the papers laid before the House? That in a year when taxes to a larger amount than were ever be. fore imposed in any one session there was a disposition on the part of the executive government to recommend a measure, the effect of which was, to avoid an immediate burthen upon the people to the amount of near 900,000l. and yet, at the same time, very much to accelerate the reduction of the national debt; and to leave parliament at liberty, in the year 1808, to apply 512,000l. the amount of the short annuities that would then

fall in. It was also stated, that an addi- | tional consequence of that plan would be to leave at the disposal of parliament, in the event of paying off the 5 per cents, 1,500,000l. for the reduction of the public debt, or to relieve the people from taxes to that amount. Upon this point particular stress had been laid; and if at this period it should be the disposition of parliament to relieve the people from the burthen of taxes, they might apply the 512,000l. short annuities, and the 1,500,000l.; there would then be a relief to the people of 3,000,000l. and the relief of 900,000l. was, besides, immediate. It was not for him to presume how parliament would act in the year 1808; but such would be the state of things when the five and four per cents were paid off. Such were the recommendations of the measure, but was that the whole? His hon. friend had said, that the term "consolidation" was a term of deception in this case, which was certainly not so. The difference between the present plan and that of the sinking fund established in 1786 was this, that, in 1808, when a discretion was to be afforded to parliament of disposing of what was in the hands of the commissioners for the relief of the people in taking off taxes, it was proposed, instead of arresting the progress of this fund, that it should go on until, by the productive powers of compound in terest, in conjunction with the other fund, it had worked the discharge of the whole debt; instead of resting at 1808, it was to continue its operation until the whole debt was discharged. What was the system of 1792? By that measure it was provided, that one per cent should be raised on every loan that should thereafter be made, in proportion to the sum borrowed, and which was to operate till the debt which it was calculated to redeem should be discharged, and the surplus to be at the disposal of parliament. The alteration now proposed was, that instead of this being at the disposal of parliament, it should be added to the sinking fund, and that both should go on until the whole debt was redeemed. It appeared under the old plan, supposing the 3 per cents at par, and the 4 and 5 paid off, that the old debt would be extinguished in fortyfour years and four months from February last. Supposing the 3 per cents at 75, the whole debt would be paid off in 32 years and 10 months: that under the operation of the system of 1792, the debts incurred

since that time would be discharged, supposing the 3 per cents at par, in 45 years and 7 months. Supposing the 3 per cents at 75, the whole of the new debt would be discharged in 35 years and three months. By the consolidated system now proposed, the whole of that debt would be extinguished in 31 years, that was to say, in four years less time than by the plan of 1792, and in three years less than the operation of the plan of 1786 would effectuate its purpose. Supposing the 3 per cents at 75, the effect of this consolidated plan would be, to extinguish the whole of the existing debt in 33 years and seven months; that was to say, the debt existing previous to the plan of 1786. The period allowed by the act of 1792 for extinguishing the debt since, was 45 years; and, if gentlemen would look at the papers, they would find that the effect of the consolidated plan would be, supposing the 3 per cents at par, not only to extinguish near 498 millions, but also to provide for the extinction of near 40 millions more; and, supposing the 3 per cents at 75, the effect of the consolidated plan would be, not only to pay off the whole of the present debt, but also to afford the means of paying off 44 millions. Now he would ask the committee, whether a measure, the effect of which was to afford immediate relief to the amount of 900,000/., and to afford relief, if parliament should choose to avail itself of the opportunity in 1808, of bringing 512,000%., and the 1,500,000l. in the manner he had already stated, to the relief of the public in taxes, without retarding the progress of the system of 1786 or 1792 ? Was this a departure from the system of 1786 or1792? [Here Mr. Addington proceeded through the calculations in the printed papers.] This plan would extinguish the national debt in a much shorter period than the former plan, and afforded relief for the payment of 900,000l. taxes. It afforded means also for supporting the finances of the country, in the event of its being engaged in war.

Mr. Tierney observed, that, whatever hostility might exist between him and the author of the sinking fund, he had always admired the wisdom of that plan, as well as the ability with which it had been car ried into execution. The right hon. gen. tleman should however take care that he did not destroy all that had as yet been beneficial in the operation of the sinking fund. He had considered all the advan

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of time: he had never understood that there existed in this country such a spirit as led to occasion any difference in point of confidence, where the faith of parlialiament was pledged, whether it was confined to four years or forty; and the whole financial transactions of the country warranted the assertion. Had not many large sums been borrowed on long annuities of 60 and 70 years? And had they ever been under-estimated because of their long duration? No, the public credit of the country would always find its level, whatever the period of time might be in which that credit might have to operate. An hon. gentleman had alluded to something like deception having arisen from the terms "consolidated sinking fund." Not only no such deception had been practised, but none was ever intended to be practised. The plan stood upon too solid and broad a basis to require such assistance. Much had been said about the measure being calculated to throw upon posterity bur thens which the present age should bear. This was not a correct state of the case. Not one single shilling would be borne by posterity which the present day did not bear. It was the object of the bill, to lay the same burthens equally on both, until the whole debt was discharged.

tages which he stated would be obtained by his plan, as fair gain arising from this change. This was an error; for the gain was in reality very little. If the stocks were taken at par, all that would be gained by the measure was 1,090,000l. If taken at 75, it would be only 790,000l. He did not wish to see a measure of this kind adopted by a sort of side wind. An enquiry ought to be instituted, to see whether this departure from a plan which had been generally approved was necessary. In his opinion, nothing could excuse it but the pressure of circumstances. With regard to the calculations, he believed they were drawn up with great accuracy; but it was not in the nature of things that they could be relied upon. Calculations of this kind might indeed be depended upon for four or five years; but what security was there that public events would permit the operation of the measure to go on progressively? It was not just to postpone paying any part of the public debt which had been contracted under the guarantee of the acts which created the sinking fund. In another war the sinking fund would be worth nothing. Monied men, finding they had once been deceived, would not be so ready to contract for loans again. No future scheme, therefore, could be expected to have so great an effect as that which was about to be abandoned. It might, perhaps, be allowable to take from the public creditors, whose claims existed Mr. Tierney's Finance Resolutions.] previous to 1786, the advantages which June 17. Mr. Tierney rose to submit his they would derive from the application of annual Resolutions respecting the State the sinking fund; but it was unjust to take of the Public Finances. He said, he that advantage from those who had ad- wished them to be laid on the table, vanced their money on the faith of that printed, and discussed on a future day. plan. The Resolutions were as follow:

The bill then went through the committee, and was reported; and passed the House on the 11th.

FINANCE RESOLUTIONS.

1. That the amount of the public funded

debt, on the 1st Feb. 1793, was 238,231,248/.

Mr. Thornton said, that to depart from the ancient system, for the purpose of adopting the present measure, was in no degree a violation of public faith. His objection to the measure was rather of a exclusive of long and short annuities for lives, to the amount of 1,373,5501. ; of which sums, political than of a financial nature. It stock, to the amount of 10,242,1007. had been seemed to him that we were only post-purchased by the commissioners for redeemponing our difficulties. He would rather see rapid advances made in the course of a few years hence, than a pledge given for futurity.

Mr. Boyd said, that a great part of what Mr. Tierney had said against the present measure, turned upon the distant period in which the plan would operate. He had never till now heard that the credit of the country, or the faith of parliament, was to be estimated by periods [VOL. XXXVI.]

ing the national debt, and the annuities, to the amount of 79,8801. had fallen in, and been carried to their account, reducing the

actual amount of the debt on the 1st Feb.

1793, to 227,989,1487. and the annuities to 1,293,6701.; and that, on the 1st Feb. 1802, stock, to the amount of 39,885,3081. had been to the amount of 18,001,148/. had been transpurchased by the commissioners, and stock, ferred to them on account of land tax redeemed, and annuities, to the amount of 125,7072. had fallen in; reducing, on the 1st Feb. 1802

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