there are, however, several articles which vances to the royal family, though satisI feel it incumbent on me to advert to. factory reasons can be given for them. I In page 52 it will appear, that part of the can state with truth to the House, that debt is the debt under the first class, under the pressure and difficulty which including the debts incurred by the queen, existed with regard to the state of his on account of the younger branches of majesty's household and civil list, I conher family. When it is considered what ceive his majesty's ministers would have is the number and time of life of the been little less than criminal if they had younger branches of the royal family, and not adopted some method of relief. 1 am that the expense on their account falls unwilling to enter into particulars, unless exclusively on the queen, it will be no called upon; but I am prepared. His small matter of astonishment that the debt majesty's ministers had no alternative beshould have amounted to no more than a tween the one they have adopted, and the sum of 28,6344. A very large portion of criminality of exposing his majesty to inthis arose upon the marriage of the prince convenience and difficulty.-The chanof Wales. In the same page will be found cellor of the exchequer then went over all a charge for the princess Charlotte. It the items of which the arrears now stand. is made to commence in 1797, though it ing are composed, the amount of which was not advanced till a later period. I was 990,0537., a sum which, he said, it am sure it will be felt by the committee, was impossible to contemplate without that it is quite impossible the expense of regret; but he had stated how a large supporting the princess Charlotte should portion of it had been created; no part be borne by the prince of Wales, consi-of it was owing to profusion, none of it dering the restrictions to which he is sub-had been corruptly employed, and it ap ject by the act of parliament for arranging the liquidation of his debts. It will, perhaps, be for the committee to say, whether it is not a charge that ought to be taken from the civil list altogether, and thrown on the consolidated fund? It is a charge that cannot be borne by the prince of Wales, and ought not to be imposed upon his majesty. I beg the attention of the committee to pages 39 and 40, referring to the pensions to the late ministers at foreign courts. I am well aware that some farther information is necessary. Ample information will be given; and, whatever deficiency there may be in mine, will be supplied by my noble friend near me. I will observe that, with regard to foreign ministers resident, it has been universally admitted, that the estimate made in 1786 was insufficient. The pensions of the late ministers at foreign courts have increased considerably within the last two years; yet notwithstanding the increase which has taken place within the last two years is so considerable, the actual increase in the last sixteen years amounts to no more than 129,643. There is another branch which falls under the head of Occasional Payments. The committee perceiving there was an error of 20,000. thought it right to avail themselves of the information contained in the book required to be kept by Mr. Burke's bill. In page 46 of the Report will be found the amount of royal bounties. It is not my intention to observe on the ad

peared from the report what a vast por-
tion of the whole of this went to the
necessary purposes of the civil govern
ment, and was not at all appropriated,
as some had most erroneously supposed,
for his majesty's personal use, or for his
own household establishment. Now, he
would ask any gentleman in the com-
mittee, if any there were, who were dis-
posed to advert to the amount of the pre-
sent deficiency, to compare it with those
former aids of the civil list, to which he
had adverted in the early part of his ob-
servations to the committee, to com-
pare the advance made in the expen-
diture under the various heads of the
report, on the subject of the civil list,
and then to see whether there was to be
found in any part of the expenditure the
character of profusion? Had we seen any
thing but what was to be esteemed a
necessary splendor on the part of the
royal family?-Certainly none.
seen one sort of abundance on the part
the chief magistrate of the community in
which we had the happiness to live.
Every virtue that belonged to that cha-
racter abounded in him; but with respect
to outward splendor, the loyal feelings
of the people would have gone much
further, if desired, than they had hitherto
been called upon to do; and he would
venture to say, that the people had rather
been disappointed for want of more, than
satiated with too much of that splendor.
The sum advanced for the discharge of

We had

of

the arrears of the civil list for the same | Now, although it was not his intention to period, in another reign, was more than propose any permanent addition now to was now required. And he wished to the civil list, yet he had no difficulty in know, whether there was any reason for saying it would, in the present condition supposing that, although 1,400,000l. were of things, be impossible to maintain, withjustly granted at a former period, there out further aid, the necessary splendor ought not to be 900,000l. granted now? of the Crown, and to support the necesFor his part, comparing the present with sary expenditure of the royal family; and the former time, and that when the last therefore, he hoped, that some relief aid was granted, and the unavoidable ex- would be afforded to the civil list herepenses in the interim, of which every indi- after, by taking away from it some charges vidual of condition in this country felt the which at present bore, and which, in his force, in his own and his family expenses, opinion, did not belong to it, and laying he thought the present arrears extremely them on the consolidated fund. Several moderate, that it gave full proof of re- heads of charges now upon the civil list, markable frugality; that the economy was and which had been so during the war, very great; for which reason he trusted might with propriety be charged on the there would be no opposition to the reso-consolidated fund, and which charges were lution, with which he should have the very heavy and enormous on his majesty's honour of concluding. He had no hesi- civil list revenue during the war. The actation in saying, that, according to his count of all which should be laid before opinion, the augmentation for the younger them: and after such accounts were laid branches of the royal family, or advances before the House, he hoped the subject made to them, should not in future be would be brought forward again for dischargeable on the civil list, but on the cussion, for which he should be perfectly consolidated fund, of which however par- ready. He thought it was unnecessary liament were to judge. If the House for him to trouble the committee any furadopted the resolution which he should ther, for the present; he was thankful for have the honour of moving, the expense the indulgence he had met in the course in the first instance would fall on the of what he had delivered before the compeople; there was, however, a circum- mittce, some parts of which were naturally stance to be attended to in that particular. dry and unengaging, and, he was afraid The committee would recollect that he rendered more so from the manner in expressed a hope, on a former occasion, which it had been treated by him. He that there would be some means of a should now conclude with moving, "That diminution of the burthens of the people it is the opinion of this committee, that a by the sale of the crown lands in the West sum not exceeding 990,0531. be granted Indies, St. Vincent, &c. that was not, to his majesty, to discharge arrears and however, to be provided for at this mo- debts due and owing on the civil list, on ment, but might become matter for future the 5th of January, 1802." discussion; but he begged to be understood, as being most clearly of opinion, that without any reference to such resources as that to which he had now hinted, and if there had been no hope of any such resource, the payment of the present arrears of the civil list would be matter of unquestionable propriety, and such as would become the wisdom of parliament to provide for. The subject therefore of these resources from the West Indies, was fit matter for a separate and distinct discussion. The civil list arrears ought, in his opinion, to be paid off without taking that matter into consideration at all. He was well convinced that if there were no resources, but such as he had hinted at, parliament would find them abundant, in the good sense, the justice, and the loyalty of the people of England.

Mr. Fox rose and said:-Sir, there is no man in this House less disposed than I feel myself, at any time, to find fault with such measures as may be conducive to the comfort, the splendor, and the dignity of every branch of the royal family; and particularly what may tend to the ease and happiness of the chief magistrate of the state, as far as I can reconcile such proceedings to the duty I owe to my own constituents in particular, and the general interests of the country. If it could be supposed that humour or temper were to govern any part of this discussion, the present is a moment in which I could have little disposition to indulge them. I have not been more than about four hours in town; and, since leaving my carriage, have heard of two articles of news than which I know of

and the country provide for all the expences (and God knows they have been severe enough lately!) of our fleets and armies, the revenues allotted to the crown must necessarily be at the disposition, and subject to the control of parliament. It would be a strange and absurd doctrine indeed, to maintain that the public should take upon itself all the expense, and leave the revenue precisely as it was before: such a doctrine is too monstrous to have met with any support even in the worst of times. Fortunately for us, some of our kings have been too improvident, by which they outran their incomes.

nothing of a public nature that could be niore grateful to my feelings. The first is that in which every man, wishing well to his country, must rejoice, I mean the conclusion of the definitive treaty of peace with France; and the second, that it is the intention of the minister to move for the repeal of the income-tax,-a tax the most oppressive, pernicious, and vexatious, that ever was imposed in any country; and tending more than any other to subvert that respect in which a good government ought always to be held by the people, and without which there can be very little security for its subsisting for any length of time. This, how- In treating of this question I do not ever, is a subject which is by no means wish to be severe; but I understand, connected with good or ill humour, and that so much stress has lately been made is solely dependent on what is consistent on the claims which some persons suppose with our attachment to the throne, a the crown ought still to have upon a part proper view to the laws of the land, and at least, if not the whole of the old here the sacred principles of the British con- ditary revenue, that I cannot withhold stitution. However I may have been in- expressing briefly my opinion on that structed or entertained by the right hon. subject. Were we now to allow the here gentleman, in the history he has given us ditary revenue to be the same as it was in of the civil list during the last century, I former times, surely no gentleman could do not conceive it to have been precisely possibly say that it should be applied to in point, or to bear strongly on the present the purposes of the civil list only. I question. My ideas upon that subject admit that the revenue of James 2nd was differ vastly from those which have been two millions annually; but I believe no brought forward in this committee; nor one will venture to assert that it was can I conceive how any thing respecting granted only for civil-list purposes. From the revenues of the crown previously the time, however, that parliament exoto the Revolution, has more analogy to nerated the crown (for that is the fact) the present civil list than what may be from the expense of Jevying and sup drawn from the remotest antiquity. The porting fleets and armies, from that morevenues of the crown before the event ment the hereditary revenues became the alluded to, compared with the present property of the public. It was so undercivil list, was as gold to silver. The stood, and so expressed on the election king certainly possessed immense reve- of William 3rd. He could hold no herenues in former times, totally independent ditary revenue jure coronæ, for he was of parliament: but for this revenue, what not the heir to the crown when he suc had he to do? He was to raise and main-ceeded James 2nd. I am aware that a great tain fleets and armies in times of war, as misunderstanding prevailed upon this well as in peace. It was no private in- subject, and perhaps continues to precome of his own, as an individual, but avail; but we are not now infected with trust from the public. It is very true, the superstitious notions imbibed by some that such revenue was not adequate to persons of that day. We know that meet extraordinary occasions; and though William 3rd ascended the throne, not by the monarch was bound, at his own ex- right, but by the choice and election of pence, to defend the country, and main- the people, and therefore had no rights tain the expenses of wars, as well as civil jure corona, nor any other rights but such government, in cases of necessity he ap-as had been covenanted, So of George 3rd. plied to parliament for assistance. Whether that mode was preferable to that which has been since adopted, is a question not worth discussing at this moment; but I am free to confess, that I am a strong advocate in favour of the modern system. Now, however, that the House

He is not the heir of James 2nd, but of William 3rd; nor has he any right to this hereditary revenue, unless we go back to the ancient and absolute rights of prescription. What did the parliament of William 3rd do? Instead of the heredi tary revenue, they appropriated others for