Relations with Great Britain. Lord Grenville to Mr. Liston. DOWNING STREET, Jan. 9, 1798. With regard to the article which the last-mentioned gentleman and the agent of the United States recommend to be added to the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, as explanatory of the fifth article, it does not appear advisable to conclude it exactly on the principles which the agents have suggested. ascertained with the utmost practicable accuracy, and by actual observation; that the surveys of the rivers should be prosecuted, by the persons SIR: I send you enclosed copies of a despatch employed in them, until they shall have ascerto the Duke of Portland from Lieutenant Gov-tained the respective sources of the various springs ernor Carleton, and of two letters from Mr. Chip- and small branches in which the principal branch man therein referred to. of each river terminates; and that these surveys shall be laid down on maps to be delivered to the Commissioners; that the map of the river determined to be the real St. Crox should be annexed to the declaration of the Commissioners, and that such declaration shall specify the longitude and latitude of the mouth, and shall describe which of the spring-heads, marked on the map, is to be considered as the source of the true river St. Croix, and that such declaration shall be considered as conclusive, and shall release the Commissioners from the necessity of particularizing the longitude and latitude of the source of the river. In order, however, to avoid any dispute hereafter, the two Governments should further agree to proceed, with Those gentlemen, and the Commissioners themselves, do not seem to have fully adverted to the extreme importance of ascertaining, with the utmost accuracy, the precise point which is to be called the source of that river, which shall be determined to be the river St. Croix intended by the Treaty of Peace; with a view to obviate the difficulties and disputes which might hereaf-out delay, to erect, at their joint expense, and at ter arise from the common case of many forks and branches, nearly of equal magnitude, which are usually found near the source or head of considerable rivers; and this is more particularly deserving attention, because, by the second article of the treaty of 1783, the northeastern boundary of the United States is described as commencing from the northwestern angle of Nova Scotia, viz: that "angle which is formed by a line drawn due north from the source of St. Croix river to the Highlands," &c. Any doubt or uncertainty, as to the precise spot of that particular spring or river-head, which is to be considered as the real source of the river, would affect this important boundary not less essentially than the eastern one, which alone appears to have been the contemplation of the agents, at the period of their making the recommendation in question. the place designated as the source of the true river St. Croix, a durable monument; which, from the facility of finding the rough materials for such a building in those regions, it is presumed, could be easily executed; and, in order to prevent its being defaced or destroyed, proper surveyors should be appointed, by the two Governments, to visit it, together, once in the course of every three years, and should direct the necessary repairs to be made at the joint expense of the two Governments. It is His Majesty's pleasure, that you should submit these suggestions to the American Ministers, and to Lieutenant Governor Carleton, to whom a copy of this despatch will be forwarded by the first opportunity; and if no objections to them are offered, you will consider yourself authorized to conclude, in virtue of your general full Those gentlemen, and the Commissioners, be- powers, an additional article on these principles, ing on the spot, are unquestionably best able to which shall embrace the two objects of exoneratdecide on the degree of accuracy which it is prac-ing the Commissioners from the necessity of a strict ticable to attain, in a matter of this nature: but compliance with the letter of the article, and of its great importance cannot be too strongly stated. providing a permanent and definite boundary beThe difficulties alleged by them, as to the ascer-tween His Majesty's possessions and those of the tainment of the latitude and longitude of the source by astronomical observation, are of considerable weight, particularly as any inaccuracy in the astronomical observations (such as are, perhaps, to be expected, when made in a country so difficult of access, and where there are no ascertained points to refer to) would create, instead of removing uncertainty and disputes. It seems, therefore, right, that the Commissioners should be released from the obligation imposed upon them by the terms of the fifth article of the treaty, if the possibility of future doubt and dispute can be as effectually guarded against by any other mode of proceeding as by that which is prescribed in the article. The course of proceeding which apppears the least liable to objection, and the most conformable to the spirit of the treaty, would be, that the latitude of the mouth of the rivers, which form the subject of the present controversy, should be United States. The mode of expressing this article, and the regulation of any details not inconsistent with the general objects herein-before stated to you. are left to yourself, and to the American Ministers; but it will certainly be desirable that nothing shall finally be concluded until after you shall have consulted Lieutenant Governor Carleton, and the Commissioners and agents appointed under the fifth article of the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation; who, being most conversant with the subject, are the best qualified to point out the most certain modes of precluding any further ambiguity. I am, &c., GRENVILLE. ROBERT LISTON, Esq. Mr. King to Lord Grenville. GREAT CUMBERLAND PLACE, Feb. 5, 1798. MY LORD: I have had the honor to receive your Relations with France. PARIS, March 9, 1798. lordship's letter of this date, concerning the St. Croix boundary; and, for the reasons that have DEAR SIR: Agreeably to what we represented occurred to your lordship, it also appears to me to you in our No. 6, we prepared a letter to the Minthat it would be more advantageous that the addi-ister of Foreign Affairs, on the subject of the late tional article should be formed and concluded in law, authorizing the capture of neutral vessels, America than here. The only motive of any im- on board of which any productions of Great Britportance in favor of the negotiation of the article ain or its possessions should be laden, showing is the saving of time. how incompatible such law was with the rights By the enclosed copy of a letter that I have of neutral nations and the treaty between France received from Colonel Pickering,* your lordship and America, its direct tendency to destroy the will observe, that the latitude and longitude of remaining commerce of our country, and the parthe mouths of the two rivers have already been ticular hardships to which it would subject the ascertained, and there is reason to expect that the agricultural as well as commercial interests of our surveys will also be completed before the meet-countrymen, from the peculiar situation of the ing of the Commissioners in June, when they might be able to finish their business, if they shall have been freed from the necessity of ascertaining, experimentally, the latitude and longitude of the source of the true St. Croix. If the article, for this purpose, is concluded and ratified here, and sent to Philadelphia, it may be ratified and exchanged there before June; the other course will require more time, and will not, I apprehend, allow the Commissioners to finish the business at their next meeting. With perfect consideration, I have the honor to be, your lordship's obedient and very humble RUFUS KING. servant, Rt. Hon. LORD GRENVIlle. United States. We added, that, under existing circumstances, we could no longer resist the conviction that the demands of France rendered it entirely impracticable to effect the objects of our mission; and that, not being permanent Ministers, but Envoys Extraordinary, with full power for particular purposes, we deemed it improper to remain longer in France, after the impossibility of effecting those purposes had been demonstrated. Before, however, we took this measure, and explicitly demanded our passports, we deemed it expedient to desire Major Rutledge to call on Mr. Talleyrand, on the 19th ultimo, to know if he had any communication to make to us in consequence of our letter dated the 17th, and delivered the 31st of January. To this Mr. Talleyrand replied, that he had no answer to make, as the DiLONDON, March 15, 1798. rectory had not taken any order on the subject, and when they did, he would inform us of it. DEAR SIR: As the wind is unfavorable for the Still being anxious to hear explicitly from Mr. sailing of the American ships from Spithead, I Talleyrand himself, before we sent our final letter, take the chance of overtaking them, by sending, whether there were no means within our powers under cover, to our Consular Agent at Portsmouth of accommodating our differences with France this letter, with the original explanatory article on just and reasonable grounds, we wrote to him that I have concluded with Lord Grenville. We on the 27th of February, soliciting a personal interexecuted four copies; two of them, with their view on the subject of our mission: he appointed original ratifications, will be sent by Lord Gren- the 2d of March following. You will find in the ville to Mr. Liston, with an instruction to ex-exhibit A, herewith enclosed, what passed on that change them with you, when the President shall have ratified the same on our part. I will send you a copy of Lord Grenville's powers by the next opportunity, there not being time to copy them in season for this. Mr. King to Mr. Pickering. With perfect respect and esteem, I have the honor to be, dear sir, your obedient and faithful servant, RUFUS KING. SECRETARY OF STATE, &c. FRANCE. [Communicated to Congress, June 5, 1798.] Gentlemen of the Senate, and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives : I now transmit to both Houses the communications from our Envoys at Paris, received since the last, which have been presented by me to Congress. JOHN ADAMS. UNITED STATES, June 5, 1798. See page 3412. occasion. On the 4th instant, we requested ano- We have the honor to be, with the greatest Colonel PICKERING, A. MARCH 2. At three o'clock we waited on Mr. Talleyrand, and were almost immediately introduced to him. General Pinckney commenced the conversation, by saying that our Government and ourselves Relations with France. were extremely anxious to remove the subsisting difference between the two Republics; that we had received many propositions through Mr. Y. to which we had found it impracticable to accede; and that we had now waited on him for the purpose of inquiring whether other means might not be devised which would effect so desirable an object. The Minister replied, that, without doubt, the Directory wished very sincerely, on our arrival, to see a solid friendship established between France and the United States, and had manifested this disposition by the readiness with which orders for our passports were given; that the Directory had been extremely wounded by the last speech of General Washington, made to Congress when about to quit the office of President of the United States, and by the first and last speech of Mr. Adams; that explanations of these speeches were expected and required of us. General Pinckney expressed his surprise that the speech of General Washington was complained of; and said, this was a new complaint. Mr. Talleyrand merely observed that the Directory was wounded at it, and proceeded. He said that the original favorable disposition of the Directory had been a good deal altered by the coldness and distance which we had observed; that, instead of seeing him often, and endeavoring to remove the obstacles to a mutual approach, we had not once waited on him. General Pinckney observed that, when we delivered him our letters of credence, he informed us that the Directory, in a few days, would decide concerning us; and that when the decision was made he would communicate it to us; that this had, for some time, suspended any procedure on our part. He answered, that this related only to our public character, and not to private visits. General Pinckney said that, on an application made by his secretary for a passport for an American under his care, he was told that he must apply to the office of police, for that America had no Minister in France since the recall of Mr. Monroe. The Minister said, that was very true, and then proceeded to say, that the Directory felt itself wounded by the different speeches of Mr. Washington and Mr. Adams, which he had stated, and would require some proof, on the part of the United States, of a friendly disposition, previous to a treaty with us. He then said that we ought to search for, and propose some means which might furnish this proof; that if we were disposed to furnish it there could be no difficulty in finding it; and he alluded very intelligibly to a loan. He said he had had several conferences with Mr. Gerry on this subject, who had always answered that we had no power. Mr. Gerry said that he had stated other objections; that he had particularly urged that it would involve us in a war with Great Britain. He made no reply: and General Pinckney observed, that a loan had repeatedly been suggested to us, but that we had uniformly answered that it exceeded our powers. Mr. Talleyrand replied, that persons at such a distance as we were from our Government, and possessed, as we were, of the public confidence, must often use their discretion, and exceed their powers for the public good; that there was a material difference between acting when instructions were silent, and doing what was particularly forbidden; that if, indeed, a loan was positively forbidden, we might consider ourselves as incapable of making one: but if, as he supposed was the case, (he looked the question.) our instructions were only silent, that it must be referred to us to act in a case not provided for, according to the best of our judgment, for the public good; that, in almost all the treaties made during the Revolution, the negotiators had exceeded their powers, although the Government appointing them was at no considerable distance. He particularized the treaty with Prussia, and several others. General Pinckney told him that our powers did not extend to a loan, and, perhaps, might forbid it. The Minister still urged the difference between an express prohibition and mere silence. He then proceeded to state that the principal objection on the part of our Government to a loan must be, that it would draw us out of the neutral situation in which we wished to continue; that there were various means of evading this: first, the secrecy of France, which might be relied on; and, secondly, means of disguising the loan might be devised, which would effectually prevent its being considered as an aid during the present war; that, if we were truly and sincerely desirous of effecting the thing, we should experience no difficulty in finding the means. He again stated a proposition of this sort, on our part, as being absolutely necessary to prove that the Government was not about entering into a treaty with persons of a temper hostile to it. Mr. Gerry, not well hearing Mr. Talleyrand, who spoke low, asked him to explain himself with respect to the proposition which he had alluded to, supposing it to be a new one; and he answered, that one of them was secrecy; but that there were, besides, various ways which might easily be suggested to cover the loan, as an immediate one, by limiting the time of advancing it to distant instalments. Mr. Gerry observed that Dutrimond had suggested that a loan was proposed to be made, payable after the war, and in supplies to St. Domingo. Mr. Talleyrand signified that that might be one of the means used, and said that, if we were only sincere in our wish, it would be easy to bring about the end. General Marshall told Mr. Talleyrand that, if the Ministers of the United States had manifested any unwillingness to take all proper measures to reconcile the two Republics, or any indifference on the subject, they had very badly represented the feelings and wishes of their Government; that the Government of the United States was most sincerely desirous of preserving the friendship of France, and had, in his opinion, unequivocally manifested that desire, by having deputed us under the extraordinary circumstances attending our mission, and by having so long patiently borne the immense loss of property which had been sustained; that we had endeavored, according to the best of our judgment, to represent, truly, this disposition of our Government: but that we understood that France would consider nothing as an evidence of friendship but an act Relations with France. which transcended our powers, and would be so injurious to our country. As we were taking our leave, Mr. Talleyrand again noticed our not visiting him, and said that he conceived our not having had an audience from the Directory ought not to have prevented it. General Marshall told him that our seeing the Directory or not, was an object of no sort of concern to us; that we were perfectly indifferent with regard to it; but that we conceived that until our public character was in some degree recognised, and we were treated as the Ministers and Representatives of our Government, we could not take upon ourselves to act as Ministers, because, by doing so, we might subject ourselves to some injurious circumstance to which we could not submit. He said that was very true, but that we might see him as private individuals, and discuss the objects of difference between us. We requested of Mr. Talleyrand another interview, at such hour as might be convenient to him, on the 6th instant. He answered that he would receive us at half-past eleven: at which hour we attended him. which would transcend and violate our powers, and the neutral Powers. At another time, in answer at the same time operate the most serious injury to his demand of some mark of our friendship, to our country; that neutrality, in the present General Marshall observed that we considered the war, was of the last importance to the United mutual interest of the two nations as requiring States, and they had resolved faithfully to main- peace and friendship, and we relied on finding tain it; that they had committed no act volun-sufficient motives in the interest of France to pretarily which was a breach of it, and could do no-serve that friendship, without forcing us to an act thing in secret, which, if known, would justly arrange them among the belligerent Powers; that, in the present state of things, if America was actually leagued with France in the war, she should only be required to furnish money; that we had neither ships-of-war nor men to be employed in it, and could, consequently, as a belligerent Power, only be asked for money; that, therefore, to furnish money was, in fact, to make war, which we could by no means consent to do, and which would absolutely transcend our powers, being an act altogether without the view and contemplation of our Government when our mission was decided on; that, with respect so supplies to St. Domingo, no doubt could be entertained that our merchants would furnish them very abundantly, if France would permit the commerce; and a loan, really payable after the close of the war, might then be negotiated. Mr. Talleyrand again marked the distinction between silence of instructions and an express prohibition, and again insisted on the necessity of our proving, by some means which we must offer, our friendship for the Republic. He said he must exact from us, on the part of his Gov- Immediately after our arrival at his office we ernment, some proposition of this sort; that, to were introduced to the Minister, and General prove our friendship, there must be some immedi- Pinckney stated that we had considered, with the ate aid, or something which might avail them; most serious attention, the conversation we had had that the principles of reciprocity would require it. the honor of holding with him a few days past; General Pinckney and General Marshall under- that the propositions he had suggested appeared stood him, by this expression, to allude to the loan to us to be substantially the same with those which formerly made by France to the United States. had been made by Mr. X. by Mr. Y. and also to Mr. Gerry, at the time, thought he alluded to the Mr. Gerry, with an intention that they should be treaty to be made, and said all treaties should be communicated to his colleagues; that we considfounded in reciprocity, and then asked him whe-ered it as a proposition that the United States ther a loan was the ultimatum of this Government. should furnish aid to France, to be used during the Mr. Talleyrand did not give a direct answer to the present war; that, though it was unusual to disquestion: he said, as he was understood, that the close instructions, yet we would declare to him Government insisted on some act which would that, in addition to its being a measure amounting demonstrate our friendly disposition towards, and to a declaration of war against Great Britain, we our good wishes for, the Republic; this once were expressly forbidden by our instructions to done, he said the adjustment of complaints would take such a step. be easy that would be matter of inquiry; and if France had done us wrong, it would be repaired: but that if this was refused, it would increase the distance and coldness between the two Republics. The conversation continued in this style until four o'clock, when we took our leave, and agreed to meet in the evening. In the course of it, and in reply to some observations of Mr. Talleyrand respecting the proofs of friendship required by France, General Pinckney observed that our being here was a mark of the friendly disposition of our Government, and that while we were here the Government had passed a decree for seizing neutral vessels having on board any articles coming out of England; which, in its operation, would subject to capture all our property on the ocean. Mr. Talleyrand replied that this was not particular to us, but was common to all The Minister said, in the tone of a question, he supposed our instructions were to do nothing which would amount to a departure from our neutrality. General Pinckney said that we were so instructed, and that they were still more particular. Mr. Talleyrand then proceeded to argue that it would be no departure from neutrality to stipulate a loan payable after the war, and spoke of it clearly as admitting of application to immediate use. He said a good deal of the secrecy with which the transaction might be clothed, and observed, further, that a loan payable after the war would be a proof of our faithful observance of the duties of neutrality, since it would be considered as proving that we had rejected propositions for an immediate loan. General Marshall replied, that we thought differently; that. in our opinion, any act on the part of the American Government, Relations with France. on which one of the belligerent Powers could raise money for immediate use, would be furnishing aid to that Power, and would be taking part in the war. It would be, in fact, to take the only part which in the existing state of things, America could take. This was our deliberate opinion and, in addition to it, we considered our instructions as conclusive on this point. war. The one is the result of an arrest of their property without their consent; the other would be a voluntary act of the Government of the United States, and a breach of their neutrality. There is an additional objection to the latter; if the United States should make such a loan, it would give too much reason to suppose that their Government had consented, in a collusive manner, He observed that we had claims on the French to the capture of the vessels of their citizens, and Government for property taken from American had thus been furnishing France with supplies citizens. Some of those claims were probably to carry on the war. Our instructions are exjust. He asked, if they were acknowledged by press not to stipulate for any aids to France, either France, whether we could not give a credit as for directly or indirectly, during the war. With rethe payment-say for two years? We answered spect to a secret stipulation, a loan cannot be that we could. He then insisted that it was pre-made without an act of the Legislature; but if the cisely the same thing; that by such an act we Executive were adequate to it, we have had an should consent to leave in the hands of France instance of an injunction of secrecy on members funds to which our citizens were entitled, and of the Senate, on an important subject, which one which might be used in the prosecution of the war. of the members thought himself warranted in pubGeneral Pinckney said there was a difference be- lishing in the newspapers, and of frequent instantween the cases; that such prizes were now actually ces of secrets which have otherwise escaped; secrein the power of the French, without our consent; cy, in this instance, might therefore be considered, we could not prevent it or get them out; but the if the measure was in itself admissible, as being granting or not granting a loan was in our own impracticable. General Marshall observed that power. He repeated his observation, and Gen. Mar- we had considered the subject with great solicitude, shall said that the property for which money was and were decidedly of opinion that we could not, due to American citizens from the French Govern- under any form, make a loan which could be used ment, was taken into the possession of that Gov- during the war; that we could not tell what our ernment without any co-operation on the part of Government would do if on the spot, but were perthe United States. No act of any sort was per- fectly clear that, without additional orders we formed by our Government which, in any degree, could not do what France requested. Mr. Gerry contributed to place those funds in the hands of observed that the Government and Nation of the France, nor was there any consent towards it; but United States, as well as ourselves, were earin the case proposed, the act would be the act of nestly solicitous to restore friendship between the the Government; the Government would itself two Republics; that, as General Marshall had place funds in the hands of France, and thereby stated, we could not say what our Government furnish means which might be employed in the would do if on the spot; but if this proposition met prosecution of the war. This was the distinction the wishes of the Government of France, General between the cases, and, in a question of neutrality, Marshall and himself had agreed immediately to it appeared to us to be all-important. The Min- embark for the United States, and lay before our ister then proceeded to state the case of our assum- Government the existing state of things here, as ing the debt of our citizens, and of paying the it respected our nation, to enable them to determoney in that manner; but General Pinckney mine whether any, and what, other measures on and Mr. Gerry told him we were positively for their part were necessary. M. Talleyrand made bidden to assume the debt to our own citizens, no observation on this proposition, but inquired even if we were to pay the money directly to them. whether we expected soon to receive orders. Mr. He seemed surprised at this. General Pinckney Gerry mentioned an answer he had received to a observed that, contrary to usage, we had deemed letter sent by him in November; and General it proper, in the existing state of things, to state Marshall stated that our first despatches were sent candidly our powers to him, that he might know on board two vessels at Amsterdam, on the 28th certainly that we could not secretly, or under any of November, from which Mr. Talleyrand could disguise whatever, make a loan which might be form as just an idea as we could when an answer used during the war. Mr. Talleyrand said he must might be expected; but he did not think it probaresume his position that there was a difference, ble one would arrive before a month to come. which he must insist upon, between a loan pay- General Marshall told him we knew that our Govable immediately and a loan payable in future; ernment had not received our despatches on the and he still insisted there was no difference be- 8th of January, and we could not tell when they tween a loan payable in future and a credit for the might be received. He asked whether our intelmoney which might be due to our citizens. Mr. ligence came through England? General MarGerry observed that his colleagues had justly shall answered that it did not; and General Pinckstated the distinction between the debt which will ney said that American papers as late as the 8th be due to the citizens of the United States from of January mentioned the fact. France, in case of her recognising the claims which we shall make in their behalf, and a debt which might arise from a loan by the Government of the United States to that of France during the There was some conversation about the time when these instructions might be expected, and General Marshall suggested a doubt whether our Government might give any instructions. He |