ernment left the colonies to trade with us or not, as they pleased, and believing that it would be for the benefit of France that such a trade should be carried on, he thought it could not be considered as a cause of offence. Gentlemen called it an invitation to rebellion. He saw it in a very different light. No authority was given to the President to enter into a treaty, offensive and defensive, or to maintain them in their declaration of independence. Nothing further is meant by this bill than to carry on our commerce as usual with such of the French islands, as shall refrain from committing depredations upon it. Reverse the case, and though these islands forbear to capture or annoy our vessels, we shall refuse to trade with them; if they are in want of these provisions, they may be driven to despair rather than starve. Who knows what excess might be the consequence of such a conduct! The probable event would be, that they would become pirates upon our trade, or throw themselves into the hands of Great Britain, who can protect them, and who can find for them a sufficient supply of provisions. But the gentleman from Virginia has made some remarks upon the opinions of the Secretary of State, contained in his late report, which the President sent to the House, a few days ago, for the purpose of showing that the Government of France is more disposed to make peace with us at present than at any former time; and if this bill be passed into a law, may divert that intention and bring on war; but he did not think that the gentleman had shown that France is now more inclined to conciliate than at any former time. With respect to the three points stated generally by the Secretary of State, they are not said to go to the point for which the gentleman from Virginia has taken them. With regard to the douceur of £50,000 Mr. P. would say, that if we believe this attempt to have been made to extort this sum of money from our Envoys, for corrupt purposes, (and notwithstanding all that has been said on the subject, he did believe that X and Y were the agents of the French Government in that transaction, and which has, indeed, been acknowledged by Y, Mr. Bellamy of Hamburg, who declares he has never written or said any thing to our Envoys but by the direction of the Secretary of Foreign Affairs,) no reliance ought to be placed upon any of their declarations; for after such an act, it may be supposed they will say one thing at one time and another at another; and no reliance could be had upon anything which comes from so corrupt a source. The gentleman from Virginia says, that the Secretary of State proves his second point, viz: that the French Government attempted to detach Mr. Gerry from his colleagues, and to inveigle him into a separate negotiation. Mr. P. said, he could not help differing very materially from that gentleman on this point. He thought the attempt most hostile and degrading. This conduct on the part of the French does not agree with what the gentleman from Pennsylvania had the other day stated, that the French had shown no diplomatic [H.OP R. skill. This skill had apparently produced some effect even upon the mind of the Envoy himself, when he declares it as his opinion that the French Government are desirous of a reconciliation with this country. What! when this Government has appointed three Envoys to treat with the French Government, is it a sign of an amicable disposition to say, by their conduct, "We do not consider you as an independent nation who may appoint what agents you please; we will ourselves choose with whom we will treat; we will cashier some of your officers, and negotiate with the person upon whom we think we can make the best impression." So far from this showing a spirit of conciliation, he thought it a conduct most hostile to our independence. The third point, viz: to throw the blame of a rupture upon the United States, if it should take place, shows no intention to conciliate our differences. If the French Government were convinced that our grievances were just, and that they ought to conciliate with us, would they have gone into an elaborate defence of their conduct? When they justify their decrees and the confiscation of our vessels, can it be conceived that when they talk of peace they are serious? If they had, indeed, come forward, and disavowed their former conduct, he should have considered it as a conciliatory circumstance; but when they justified everything they have done, it evinced no disposition for peace. Mr. P. said he would not trouble the committee longer, except in one point, and that was as to the consequences which might flow from a declaration of independence on the part of St. Domingo. He should endeavor to answer the gentleman from Pennsylvania as to the consequences which it might produce to the Southern States. It was a subject to which he had paid all the attention in his power. He did, on all questions, endeavor as much as possible to divest himself of anything like party spirit; but in this case, where he had himself so much at stake, in which his native country and everything dear to him was concerned, his sincerity could not be doubted. Mr. P. did not himself believe that this bill would have the least tendency to procure the independence of St. Domingo; but as some gentlemen think it is probable that this may be the result, and as no one could say with certainty what the effect of any measure would be, he had considered the subject, and was clearly of opinion, that should the independence of that island take place, the event would be more advantageous to the Southern States than if it remained under the dominion of France, considering the disposition which France has evinced towords us, (and of which he saw no prospects of a change,) and the present conduct of the inhabitents of St. Domingo. Nothing which we can do, said Mr. P., can bring back the internal state of that island to the state it was formerly in. Considering the inhabitants, then, in the light of freemen, whether will it be better for us, in the Southern States, to have to deal with them as such, or under the direction of the French Government, unreasonable and arbitrary as we have found it? He had no hesitation in saying, that, H. or R.] Intercourse with France. [JANUARY, 1799 . The question was put and negatived—55 to 35. Mr. S. SMITH moved to strike out the words "shall clearly disavow." Carried. it would be more for the safety of the Southern States to have that island independent, than under the Government of France, either in time of peace or war. If our dispute with France should not be Mr. LIVINGSTON observed, that gentlemen had accommodated, and they keep possession of St. frequently told the committee that they did not Domingo, they could invade this country only from mean, by the general expression of this clause, to that quarter. There is there a large body of troops, allow any disavowal of an agent of any acts of and their unofficial agents told our Envoys, that his Government, but merely such an avowal of in case we did not submit to their conditions, we intention as they were entitled to make by their might expect an attack from that quarter. It proper authority. In order to test the sincerity of would certainly lessen the danger from that island, their declaration, and to prevent any improper in. were it to be separated from France; but remaining terference between an officer and his Governin the hands of France, and supported by the pow-ment, and to prevent any lure being held out to erful navy of France, notwithstanding all the vigor we have shown on the ocean, we might be very much annoyed from thence. If these people in St. Domingo find that we withhold from them supplies which are necessary for their subsistence, said Mr. P., though they are friendly disposed towards us, they will look elsewhere for support; they must either turn their at- | tention to cultivating their land, look to Great Britain, or become freebooters. Which situation is it most for the interest of the United States that they should be in? Surely the peaceable cultivators of the ground; and to induce them to take this course, it will be our interest to supply them with what they have occasion for lest they should get the habit of freebooters, and make our commerce the object of their plunder. He hoped, therefore, the motion for striking out would not prevail. Mr. MACON had no doubt the gentleman from South Carolina had paid particular attention to this subject. It was to be expected that every gentleman from the Southern States would pay attention to it. In one respect he was precisely in the same situation with the gentleman from South Carolina. He lived in a country that would be affected by any event, such as had been mentioned, and all his connexions were there. It was the same with all other gentlemen from the Southern States. He differed in opinion, however, when the gentlemen said that we should have less to apprehend from St. Domingo, in case it should become independent, than whilst it remained a part of the French Republic. He believed the state of society to be such in that country, as not to admit of self-government. In case they separate from France, he should apprehend that the consequence will be, that instead of being ruled by one of the European Powers, they would become the tools of them all, in turn, and we should probably have the same game played off upon us from thence, that we have heretofore had played upon us by means of the Indians. Mr. M. said, that although the part of the bill moved to be stricken out does not go directly to say that it has reference to St. Domingo, it is a little extraordinary that no other case will fit it. There could be no doubt, if the island became independent, we should have a right to trade to it; but he believed it would puzzle gentlemen to find an instance of a Legislature passing a law in order to fit a case which might happen. As he thought it improper, he hoped it would be stricken out. insurrection and revolt, he moved to add these words: "being duly authorized by the Government thereof, shall clearly disavow." After a few observations upon it, this motion was negatived-57 to 29. Mr. PINCKNEY, in his opposition to the above amendment, said he believed the gentleman from New-York to be perfectly sincere; but his judgment appeared to be disordered, and to be in a situation something like the jealous man, whenever the subject of war is in any way touched. And we know, said Mr. P., "Trifles light as air, Are, to the jealous, confirmation strong Mr. GALLATIN proposed an amendment which he supposed would be free from the objections urged against the last, for effecting the same purpose. It was to add these words: "by virtue of powers derived from the Government, and in its name." This motion was negatived-52 to 38. Mr. SPAIGHT moved to insert the words, "and having," after the word "exercising," and between the words "authority" and "in," in the same line, "under the same." Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) thought the amendment was unnecessary, as it went to make no material alteration in the bill; but, on Mr. CHAMPLIN's noticing the latter part of the amendment, which the Speaker had not heard, he expressed his disapprobation of it. Mr. GALLATIN said, there was no difficulty in discovering why the gentlemen form New Jersey and Rhode Island dislike this amendment; it is obnoxious to them, because, if adopted, it would prevent a treaty being made with persons in a state of rebellion; and this amendment was liable to no other objection. Mr. HARPER thought this amendment one of those things which might be adopted, or not, without making any material change in the bill; and believing it to be of this nature, as he supposed it would, at least, make it more agreeable to the mover, he should vote for it. Mr. NICHOLAS was of a different opinion. If a man had thrown off his allegiance to a Government, he could not be said to be exercising an authority under it. Mr. VARNUM observed that the gentleman from South Carolina had said that he should vote in favor of this amendment, because it would make JANUARY, 1799.] Intercourse with France. [H. of R. no change in the bill; he should, on the contrary, there as we please. Does it result that we have a vote for it, because he thought it made a most ma- right to pass a law beforehand to contemplate such terial change in it. That gentlemen says he an event? If we do, it will be speaking publicly, cannot see how a person can claim or exercise a thus: "If any persons shall, in any island, port, or command without having it from the French Gov-place, belonging to the French Republic, raise an vernment. He thought this very conceivable. A insurrection, and declare themselves independent, person or a number of persons might usurp an au- and shall be found to refrain from committing thority, and this amendment went to prevent a depredations upon our commerce, we will open a treaty being made with such persons. And surely free trade with them." And yet the gentleman gentlemen who do not wish to countenance the from Connecticut calls this a mere commercial doctrine of dividing the people from their Govern- question. ment can have no objection to this amendment. Mr. GOODRICH said this amendment went to change the principle of the bill. The bill goes upon the idea that when any island in the West Indies shall cease to make depredations upon our commerce, our trade shall be opened with them, without regarding by what authority or force the change was effected. The matter is not placed upon the ground of any treaty whatever; for, said Mr. G., we can neither increase nor diminish the power of the President in this respect. A great deal of mist has been thrown on this subject. The effect of this amendment will be, that the person restraining from depredations upon our commerce must act under the authority of the French Republic; on the contrary, the friends of this bill wish not to examine by what authority the thing is done, provided that it be done. We have a right to say that our vessels shall go to any port we please; but, according to the doctrine of the amendment, supposing the island of St. Domingo was conquered, we could not send our commerce there, nor could we send it to a place in rebellion; so that our commerce was to be affected by every change of circumstances which might take place. He hoped the committee would recognise no principle which shall say we have not a right to send our commerce wherever we please, whether the places to which our vessels go are in war, peace, or rebellion. Mr. GALLATIN was astonished to hear the gentleman from Connecticut say that this is merely a commercial question. Let us, said he, examine the effect of this amendment. We are told that the provisions of this bill do not extend to any colony which may be conquered; for instance, to St. Martin's, St. Lucia, or any other colonies which have been conquered. Let us see, then, how it will apply if this amendment is rejected, and whether the question is commercial or political. Let us inquire, said he, what is the case provided for, if the amendment is rejected, and which is unprovided for if it is adopted, and it will then appear what ground is covered by the opposers of this amendment. If rejected, it will result, that all persons who may claim or exercise any command in any island, &c., although they have not that command under the Government of France, and who shall refrain from privateering, shall be entitled to a free trade with this country. The only case is a case of insurrection and rebellion. Suppose, said Mr. G., I should agree with the gentleman from Connecticut, that if once a rebellion takes place, or any colony shall declare itself independent, (but, by the by, the doctrine is not countenanced by the law of nations,) that we may trade The committee have been told of a number of cases which he had been astonished to hear-cases which happened in our war. Gentlemen who have mentioned these have not attended to any of the facts of the war. Mr. G. referred to the case of the treaty made in Holland, which has already been explained in a former debate. Mr. G. said, gentlemen might put what construction they pleased upon this section; but certainly publicly to tell the French colonies that if they will rebel against their Government, and restrain from depredating upon us, we will treat with them, is to invite them to do it. A declaration of war has always been the consequence of such a conduct in other countries; and he supposed gentlemen are not ready for a declaration of war, though they tell us there is no change in our affairs for the better; that negotiation is at an end; that no idea can be entertained of the sincerity of any professions of the French; and not being ready to bring in a declaration of war, they are not surely ready to make it, or provoke it; and if not, why assume a principle that may have this effect? He hoped the amendment would be agreed to. This Mr. OTIS was apt to think, that if the gentleman from North Carolina, whose candor and attachment to this bill are well known, could have foreseen the eagerness with which gentlemen opposed to the bill have seized upon his amendment, it would have had some weight with him in presenting the motion. And if the sagacity of his friend from South Carolina (Mr. HARPER) had not been a little surprised, on this occasion, he would not have given his consent to it. amendment, said Mr. O., contains the same principle which has already been three or four times rejected. It will necessarily lead to an examination whether the officer in any island is legally authorized or not, whereas it is our wish to let that question alone. To say that this bill will be a cause of war is ridiculous. The gentleman from Pennsylvania had so long and so often predicted causes of war, that everybody would discredit them in future; for, being at peace at present, was a full contradiction to all his former predictions. The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again. THURSDAY, January 24, The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of State, correcting errors which had occurred in the copy of his report on the late despatches printed for the House, which was ordered to be printed. DEATH OF MR. TAZEWELL. A message was received from the Senate. informing the House that HENRY TAZEWELL, Esq., one of their body, died this morning, and that they had directed orders to be taken respecting his funeral. Afterwards, on motion of Mr. DENT, the House came to the following resolution: Resolved, That this House will attend the funeral of HENRY TAZEWELL, Esq., late a member of the Senate of the United States, on to-morrow, at half past four o'clock. INTERCOURSE WITH FRANCE. The House again resolved itself into a Com mittee of the Whole, on the bill further to suspend the commercial intercourse between the United States and France, and the dependencies thereof, and for other purposes. Mr. SPAIGHT's amendment being under consideration, Mr. HARTLEY said the general policy of this bill had been considered at the last session; and he had no doubt, that when any parts of the French dominions cease to depredate upon our commerce, we might, with propriety, open our intercourse with them. If, for instance, the Isle of France had fitted out privateers, and depredated upon our commerce, and chose to forbear to do so in future, and leave our passage to the Indian seas clear, it would be a good reason for opening our commerce with that place. The case of St. Domingo is still stronger, and has, as has been shown, the power of doing us much mischief, should we refuse to furnish them with the necessary supplies. If they call in their privateers, therefore, it would certainly be right to open our intercourse with that valuable island, especially since they appear to be abandoned by France, who has withdrawn all her troops from the island. After some other observations, Mr. H. concluded with hoping the amendment would not be agreed to, as it would only tend to embarrass the bill, by making it necessary to ascertain the legality of the governing authority of the places with which we might open our intercourse. [JANUARY, 1799. ject to pursue, but what, in a dignified national view, it is our duty and our interest to pursue. This separation having been effected by the wrong acts of the French Government, she can have no claim upon us; we have taken our stand upon such ground as can always be justified, whenever a spirit of justice shall return. There is no man, said Mr. B., in this House, who does not wish for peace, whenever it can be obtained on a solid foundation. But it was well observed yesterday by his colleague, (Mr. GOODRICH,) that this question is wholly a commercial one. This declaration gave offence to the gentleman from Pennsylvania. He was surprised that any one could suppose this to be the case. Mr. B. said he was equally surprised at the arguments of that gentleman. What connexion had we with the French Government? or what connexion had we with any other, besides commercial? He had heard much clamor out of doors about other connexions-about treaties offensive and defensive. He hoped no such connexion ever would exist between this country and any nation whatever. What, said Mr. B., was the original intention of the act, which this bill is meant to continue ? It was to suspend our commercial intercourse, leaving a power, however, with the President, to repeal the suspension, whenever the French shall cease from their depredations. If we follow this course, said Mr. B., and these depredations are discontinued in any of the West India islands, we have a right to relax this suspension with respect to them. And it is a strange idea to suppose that such a step can give offence. Gentlemen suppose that some kind of treaty is to be made, though no such thing is provided for. The commerce is to be opened the moment depredations cease, without any agreement being entered into whatever. It is, therefore, a simple proposition, and has nothing to do with the Government of France; indeed, so far from being matter of offence to that Government, he supposed they would be gratified by the circumstance. But it had been said, that the independence of St. Domingo would have bad effects upon this Mr. BRACE was opposed to this amendment, as country. He could not see that this would be it came round to the same point with that which the result; nor had he heard sufficient reason to the gentleman from Pennsylvania had proposed. convince any man's mind that this will be the It struck him that, in the course of the debate, case. If persons in power in St. Domingo shall gentlemen have forgot the ground on which we find it to be their interest to cease from plunder. stand. Our treaties with the French Government how are we to ascertain that they do not act achave been declared void, on account of the con- cording to instructions from the mother country duct of that Government. We have proceeded If they do refrain from doing us injury, it will be further, and suspended all our commercial inter-sufficient for us. It is a strange idea that, because course with France and her dependencies. It we choose to serve the inhabitants of St. Dominwould be well to consider what kind of connex-go with provisions, of which they stand in need ion now exists between the United States and on condition that they will not depredate on ou France, and whether a measure of the kind pro-commerce, that, in doing this, we promote the in posed can injure our present prospect of peace. By the arguments of some gentlemen, it would seem that we are under some obligation or contract to that Government; whereas, we ought to consider ourselves, with respect to it, in no other light than we consider ourselves with respect to the Governments of the world with which we have no connexion. We have, therefore, no ob- | dependence of the country. But suppose thi should be the consequence, the French Govern ment must allow that it is an effect produced by their own acts, and not by any conduct of thi Government. To talk in this way, Mr. B. thought was to show a false complaisance towards France He wished to treat that nation with justice; bu could never consent to prostrate the dignity of the country, by supposing that, in doing an act nerely to regulate our own commerce, we are about to give offence to the French Government, and that, therefore, we ought not to adopt it. Mr. B. would advise gentlemen to take a view of the ggressions we have received from France, and also of our resources, in order to see whether the atter are such as to warrant our giving up the independence of our nation; if this was not the case, and he was sure it was not, we ought to take firm and dignified attitude. But if this amendment is agreed to, it will render it necessary to nquire whether the authority exercised is under the French Government, before we can permit our vessels to carry on commerce with any of the islands, how well disposed soever they may be. He hoped, therefore, it would be negatived. [H. OF R. any of the islands and the United States, whenever he shall deem it consistent with the honor and dignity of this country, without inquiring whether such place is under the French Government. Frequent decrees are passed in France, said Mr. C., for revoking the commissions of these officers, which are not enforced; and yet, if this amendment is passed, such a person could not be treated with, and it would always be difficult to ascertain whether an officer acted under the French Government or not. If the islands choose to cease from their depredations, he would openly trade with them; for the intercourse was originally suspended, not with a view of starving the islands, but to prevent depredations being committed upon our commerce. He was astonished to find that nothing could come before this House, but genMr. SPAIGHT said, he wished to have given the tleman are ready to object to it on account of the reasons which induced him to make this amend-effect it may have on France. For his part, if ment yesterday, but a motion being made for the committee to rise, prevented him. Having been a member of the committee who formed this bill, and having given his consent to it, he trusted it would not be believed that he brought forward this motion to defeat the bill; his object was to make it more palatable to many gentlemen, who, if an amendment something like the present was not adopted. would vote against the bill. The gentlemen from Massachusetts and Connecticut have said, that if this amendment is adopted, it will destroy some of the most important principles of the bill. He believed they had mistaken the effect of the amendment. They state that it will be necessary for the President to inquire whether the commander of any island with which he was about to open our intercourse, had his authority from the French Government? On the contrary, it appeared to Mr. S. that, so long as the citizens of any island acknowledged France as the mother country, whatever authority may exist there, the place must be under the Government of France. If an open rebellion took place, it would alter the case entirely. And if conquered by any of the belligerent Powers, it would not Mr. GALLATIN said, it appeared to him that this then come under the bill; so that, in either case, amendment goes no further than to prevent any the amendment could have no bad effect. The stipulations with persons who have usurped the principal motive with him for moving the amend- power of a country. It was yesterday stated by ment was, in order to take away the objection the gentleman from Massachusetts, and repeated made to it by many gentlemen, that the bill is to-day by the gentleman from North Carolina, calculated to produce the independence of St. Do- that it did not extend to cases where men's commingo; for he himself had no such view, nor did missions are doubtful. If a man has once held a he think any other member of the committee, who commission as an agent in any French colony, reported the bill, had. He believed, if the wants he may be recognised as their agent, so long as he of these people are supplied from this country, it has not been publicly declared to be otherwise. will be better that they should remain under the His exercising the power will be sufficient proof Government of France; but, if we refuse to sup- that he has it; and, unless this principle is admitply them with provisions, they may act as free-ted, it must be evident that the bill is intended to booters, or do still worse-throw themselves into operate in favor of revolters. the hands of Great Britain, in order to procure supplies. These reasons had induced him to make the amendment, and he should be glad to see it adopted. the measure be beneficial to this country, he cared not what effect it might have upon France. It was said this provision would have a tendency to provoke insurrection, or the independence of the island; on the contrary, he believed, if this law does not pass, they will throw themselves into the hands of Great Britain, or become plunderers of our property. He hoped to see the intercourse opened, not only with St. Domingo, but with the Isle of France. Mr. CHAMPLIN could see no difference between this and the former amendment, which had been negatived. The design of this section is, to authorize the President to open the intercourse with Mr. HARPER said, when this amendment was first made, he considered it as making no considerable change in the section, and was, therefore, inclined to vote for it; but the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. VARNUM,) of whose discernment he had a very high opinion, having said that he considered it as making a very considerable change in the section, and declaring that he would, on that account, vote for it, he was induced to take a further view of it, and he found, upon reconsideration, that it would, indeed, make a very material change in the section, and because he found this would be the case, he must vote against it. There is a great difference, said Mr. G., between this amendment and the one which had been moved by the gentleman from Virginia, the gentleman from New York, or that which he had himself moved. It was the opinion of the gentleman from Virginia, and it was his also, that the President ought not to be authorized to open a trade with St. Domingo, unless the constituted |
