fore, looking to the consent of the Crown being given to the provision of 5,000l. by the East India Company, and looking also to what other distinguished men received en similar occasions, it did appear to him that if they should provide a pension of 3.0007. a year concurrently with his salary as Governor General of India, and the grant of the India Company, it would be a much larger remuneration than was usual. On the retirement of a Minister of the Crown, however distinguished his services might be, his pension never exceeded 2,000l. a year; and even for that sum it was necessary that his circumstances should require the grant. From all these considerations, he did think that, giving credit to the East India Company, which was a great public body, and considering that both the Crown and the Parliament were required to give their assent to the pension proposed to be conferred upon his noble Friend, it was on the whole better that the House should agree to the clause as it now stood. of the poor in Wales in the English language, and also praying for their mental, moral, religious, and industrial training. The right rev. Prelate added, that at present there existed in Wales a pressing want of education with a most scanty means of obtaining it; and he suggested that the whole question, as far as the Government was concerned, was, what power they had to supply that deficiency. He (the Bishop of St. David's) was happy to hear that an inquiry had been set on foot by the Government at the instance of an hon. Gentleman in another place; but in his opinion inquiry was superfluous, because there could be no doubt of the facts. The only question, as he had said, was, what power existed in the Government to supply the defect which all acknowledged to exist in that Principality. He believed they had had sufficient experience to know there was no hope whatever of accomplishing what they all so anxiously desired—namely, the founding of some good and extensive measure for the education of the people of Wales; but, nevertheless, he hoped the inquiry might terminate in some substantial benefit. He believed that if the Government had it not in their power to do all these petitioners desired, they yet had it in their power to do a great deal that would be highly beneficial to that country; but he did not wish them, under present circumstances, to attempt to do everything. He thought it advisable that they should at present confine themselves to the attempt to draw forth the energies and resources of the country with reference to education; and that they should act on the principle of eliciting and meeting the advances of the people. In those places, however, where there was such an utter deficiency of means that nothing could be done without the assistance of the Government, he thought they ought to furnish some immediate and pecuniary assistance. He did not believe that it was in the power of any GovernCharitable Institutions, against the Charitable Trusts Bill. ment, however strong it might be, to do all -By Lord Campbell, from Elie, and several other places, that the petitioners appeared to suppose it praying that a Bill may be passed for compensating Pro-possible for them to accomplish. He did prietors of Lands for the Purchase of Sites for Free Churches (Scotland). From St. Clement Danes, and St. not think it would be possible at once to Martin-in-the-Fields, for the Prevention of Sunday Trad-produce a change in the language generally ing.—By the Bishop of St. David's, from Cardigan, pray-spoken in Wales. He was aware a strong SIR A. L. HAY referred to the instances of Lord Beresford, Lord Lynedoch, and Lord Combermere, and called upon the House of Commons, in gratitude to services unequalled, to settle their annuity for three lives. The clause agreed to. House resumed. Bill to be reported. HOUSE OF LORDS, Tuesday, May 19, 1846. MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1. Customs Duties. Act Amendment. 3 and passed. Western Australia. PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Guardians of the Lewes Union, for Repeal of Lunatics Act and Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics Act, so far as respects the Building and Maintaining County Lunatic Asylums.-By the Duke of Richmond and Earl Warwick, from Tamworth Heathside, and a great number of other places, in favour of the Corn Laws.—From Turriff, and several other places, for Protection of the Agricultural Interest. From several ing that Means may be provided for extending Education to the Poorer Classes in Wales. EDUCATION IN WALES. The BISHOP of ST. DAVID'S presented a petition from the borough of Cardigan, the prayer of which he supported. It was in favour of the education of the children opinion had been expressed elsewhere that all that was required in Wales was English schoolmasters to root out the language of the country; but his experience in Wales convinced him that this was an incorrect representation. In many districts of Wales English schoolmasters had been established cently increased by Government, there was not now a sufficient number to exercise an efficient inspection over the schools already established. He thought that some increased efforts ought to be made by Parliament, for the extension of education; but he was not prepared to say that a different principle from that adopted in England ought to be applied to Wales. He hoped that, whatever Parliamentary grants might be made for educational purposes, the principle of local exertion would never be abandoned. for a considerable time; but the Welch language continued the ordinary language of the people, and the knowledge of the English language among the children of the poor was extremely scanty; and their use of it out of school next to nothing. He did feel, however, that this was a subject which called for the active interposition of the Government. It was quite notorious in that part of the country with which he was more particularly connected, that if the means of education had been more extensively employed some time ago, and pains taken to improve the moral and intellectual condition of the country, there would have been no need whatever for the imposition of that burden under which they were at present labouring; namely, the soldiers and the police which had been found necessary to maintain the tranquillity of the country. He must observe, also, that although these soldiers and police were extremely useful in their way, and served to protect the country from a variety of evils, there were yet some evils from which they afforded no protection whatever. They might protect the public tranquillity, but he was sure they proved no safeguard of public morality. On the contrary, the presence of these people only made the work of education more needful and more difficult, while they were consuming and absorbing the sources which might be applied to that desirable end; and he would, therefore, ask their Lordships whether they would prefer that Wales should be protected by soldiers and policemen rather than by the less expensive and more efficient means of a body of school masters. The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE expressed his entire concurrence in the important suggestions thrown out by the right rev. Prelate. He considered, however, that they had upon the Table of Parliament, at that moment, the most ample means of arriving at a correct judgment on this subject. It appeared from the Report of the Commissioners appointed two years ago to inquire into the lawless proceedings in Wales connected with the Rebecca riots, that in the districts where those excesses prevailed there was an entire want of anything like a good system of education. He believed that, since the Parliamentary grant for educational purposes, there had been a regularly increasing demand upon the Government for assistance towards the establishment of schools; and although the number of school inspectors had been re LORD BROUGHAM was glad that the attention of the Government had been called to this important subject; for that portion of the United Kingdom to which the right rev. Prelate had referred, peculiarly required assistance on a liberal sca e from the funds at the disposal of the Government for the promotion of education. He was happy to find that there was a universal concurrence in the principle-a general principle only to be relaxed as occasion, or necessity, or local circumstances might require that no grant ought to be made towards any local scheme without requiring that a certain proportion of the necessary funds should be contributed in the locality. He was glad to find this recommendation of the Educational Commissioners sanctioned by such high authority. The DUKE of BUCCLEUCH, with reference to the observations of the noble Marquess (Marquess of Lansdowne), said he was happy to say the number of the schools in the country were increasing so rapidly, that it was quite true it was not at present in the power of the Government inspectors to visit them as frequently as was desirable; but the subject was under the consideration of the Educational Committee of the Privy Council, and he hoped that measures for increasing their number and efficiency would be speedily adopted. Petition to lie on the Table. CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. The DUKE of BUCCLEUCH moved that the Bill be read 1a. The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the question, when The DUKE of RICHMOND said, he could not allow this Bill to pass-to be read a first time-without expressing his opinion that this measure was positively adding insult to injury. Their Lordships were now called upon to consider two Bills for depriving the agricultural interest of protection; and if they looked at the Votes of Canadians to buy their cotton in the cheapthe House of Commons, they would find that est market? If they did this, the coarse those measures, which were called remedial cottons of this country would no longer be measures, and which were introduced si- consumed in Canada, which now took from multaneously with the Corn Bill, but from us a greater amount of this description of which he did not anticipate much benefit, manufactures than the whole of the United had made very little progress. He thought it States. The Americans would then beat most unfair to the agricultural interest that ' us out of the Canadian markets with their these two measures, attacking them, should coarse cottons, as they had done in the have been brought into their Lordships' South American markets, and as they were House before the other measures to which near doing in China, where they ran our he referred had passed a second reading in manufactures very close. One of the great the House of Commons. The only remedial leaders of the League, a cotton manufacmeasures from which he anticipated any turer in Cheshire, Mr. Greg, had expressed benefit at all, was that under that which it his opinion, that before long he should see was proposed to lend money for the improve- the coarser cottons of America competing ment of land. He thought that such a effectually with our coarser cottons in Manmeasure might, to a certain extent, be of chester itself. He (the Duke of Richmond) some value; but he considered this Bill and entered his protest against this Bill, as he the Corn Bill to be as bad measures as had already protested against the Corn Bill. could possibly have been introduced. This He must again repeat, that he regretted Bill was inconsistent with the declaration these Bills had been sent up unaccompanied of the Ministers themselves. They were by what were called the remedial measures to told that the Ministers wished to establish which he had before alluded. Sir R. Peel free trade; but he would ask if there was had declared his intention to do something a single line in this Bill for the establish- to relieve the agriculturists from highway ment of free trade? It was, certainly, a rates, and the burden of medical relief; free-trade measure with reference to the but this was not to be done by a Bill; it agriculturists and the landed interest; but was to be by an annnal vote in Parliament. they would find, on looking into the Bill, Why had not Sir R. Peel given the landed that there was to be no reduction of duty interest security by a Bill, instead of by upon our cottons in India. It was true Resolutions? For if the right hon. Barothe duties on some manufactures were to net left office, and he was succeeded by the be reduced, but that was not free trade. noble Lords on his right (the Opposition), He objected to free trade altogether; and, they might not be able to maintain it, and though the Minister might propose to take then the League would come in, and they away all protection from the agricultural in- would not allow them the penny per acre terest, he (the Duke of Richmond) was not which Sir R. Peel proposed to give to the prepared, because the Minister robbed the agricultural interest. agricultural interest, to turn robber him- LORD MONTEAGLE said, these preliself, and, by establishing free trade, to minary discussions were very inconvenient; throw out of employment the great body of but he could not allow the observations of the operatives of this country. He con- his noble Friend who has just sat down to sidered that this was a most unjust mea- pass as conclusive. The noble Duke comsure; that it would throw out of employ-plained that the measure read a first time ment a large body of silk weavers in this country; and that it would convert Spitalfields into a mass of pauperism. Many parts of this Bill were extremely obnoxious. He called upon their Lordships to remember that, though the Members of the Government had in their speeches advocated free trade, they had not carried out freetrade principles to the utmost. There was nothing in this Bill to destroy differential duties. If they allowed corn to come into this. country from the United States duty free, to the great injury of their Canadian provinces, he asked whether, on the principles of free trade, they ought not to permit the He last night established a system of free crifice of protection, but they were not at all inconsistent with the maintenance of revenue duties on those articles and in that manner which rendered them least burdensome to the people. The principle which he contended for was, that when they put their hands into the pockets of the people, they should do so in order to obtain, at the least possible expense to the people, that amount of revenue which the public service required; and he could not agree to the statement that in the maintenance of the revenue duties there was any affirmation of, or opposition to, the principles of free trade. the principle of free trade and protection. He would assure his noble Friend, that the interpretation which was put upon free trade by the country was that which was put upon it by the Anti-Corn-Law League, namely, the total abolition of duties. Those who now opposed the cry of free trade would be found perhaps, when protection was taken away from one interest, ready to join in that unfortunate cry; and they might rely upon it, that the Custom House itself might not long survive the bonded warehouses. His noble Friend on the cross benches had spoken of free trade in the sense in which it was understood out of doors; and he could assure them, that in agreeing to that cry of free trade, they would run the risk of seeing the customs duties assailed at a future period. LORD BROUGHAM felt that no advantage could result from anticipating the discussion of this Bill, for there was no doubt that it would be discussed when the Corn Bill was before them; but he could not allow this discussion to close without protesting against the idea that it was an impeachment of the principles of free trade to maintain duties for the purpose of revenue. There was no ground for such a supposition in proposing to take the duty off corn, the principal food of the people. LORD BEAUMONT thought, that the course which his noble Friend on the cross benches (the Duke of Richmond) had taken was not only consistent, but necessary. The noble Duke had placed the case in this way. He objected to the Bill which they had read a first time last night. He said, that it was opposed to the principle of protection, and therefore he was opposed to it; and in speaking of the Bill then before the House, he had remarked that it was inconsistent with the principle of the former Bill, inasmuch as the principle of protection was retained. Whatever his noble Friend might have thought of the Bill, he thought that their Lordships ought at any rate to maintain a character for consistency, so far as that, if in the first Bill they EARL GREY agreed with the noble and agreed to an abandonment of the principle learned Lord that this was an inconvenient of protection, they ought not in the second period for the discussion of the Bill, and Bill to introduce a contrary principle. It he hoped that when it was proposed for a was in his (Lord Beaumont's) opinion ab- second reading, when it would no doubt be solutely necessary that the Bill before fully discussed, the Government would be them should be delayed until they had prepared to state the grounds upon which given the first Bill (the Corn Importation they had introduced a Bill proposing to do Bill) a full consideration, in order that so much, and had not introduced a meathey might know how far the second Bill sure to do more. He agreed with some of could be reconciled to the first Bill, and the observations made by the noble Duke thus judge of the degree of consistency on the cross benches; but although he did between the two measures. He hoped not look upon it as anything like free trade, that his noble Friend (Lord Monteagle) yet he would accept it as an instalment of would act up to the principles he had ad-free trade. He had not changed the opinvocated in his speech, and consider the second Bill solely on the principle of revenue duties; and if he did so he would agree to some of the objections urged by the noble Duke on the cross benches, for he would find duties retained in the Bill with respect to the trade of the Colonies, and to the silk trade, which had been looked upon as protection duties. He hoped, therefore, that he would regard all the articles enumerated in the second Bill solely with a view to the maintenance of revenue duties, and not with respect to ions which he had maintained ever since he came into Parliament; he was against all protection to all kinds of interests. He wished to see duties levied for revenue, and for revenue only. He was preparedand he was conscious the country was prepared-for a general reform of our commercial system, in order that there might be unrestricted liberty afforded to industry; and that was a system the advantages of which would be recognised, if it were once adopted, by both producers and consumers. The noble Duke on the cross benches re2 F not generally accepted in the complicated sense in which his noble Friend had used it. It was easy to understand the views of the noble Earl (Grey), who was quite a from a tinge of protection. He confessed he was at a loss to understand the policy of the Government. They had restrained the German Zollverein and the French from exporting their produce into this country--they had for years kept a system of restriction; and upon what experience were they now about to abandon it? They had incurred immense expense and risk— they had engaged in heavy and expensive wars for the purpose of maintaining their Colonies-they had insisted, at the loss of much blood and treasure, on protecting their Colonies by giving a preference to their ferred to Canada, and stated that the Canadians were not placed on equal terms with the people of the United States, if they were compelled to compete with them in our markets, and were not allowed to purist-whose free-trade opinions were free obtain the cheap coarse cotton fabrics of America. Now, he (Earl Grey) would state, on behalf of the great and intelligent body of the manufacturers of this kingdom, that they were willing and prepared to give up all protection, for they did not depend upon protection for their success, but upon their enterprise and energy and skill, and that as they wished to buy corn where it was cheapest, so they did not expect that the Canadians should be compelled by a differential duty to give the preference to their cottons. If they applied their skill and capital to the manufacture of the superior descriptions of cot-produce; and, on the other hand, providton, and the Americans, from the cheapness of cotton and other facilities, were able to manufacture coarse cotton cheaper, they might both advantageously employ themselves. ing that our manufactures should have a preference by our Colonies; but now it seemed there was to be no preference whatever. Why keep the Colonies at all? Why incur all this enormous expense? LORD ASHBURTON considered the Not to benefit themselves, but to benefit measures which hnd been introduced to the whole world. You will have the charge, their Lordships' notice on that and on the they the advantage. He repeated, this preceding day, of vital importance-he was a system perfectly new and unusual; meant, of course, the Bill respecting the and he very much doubted whether those Corn Laws and the Tariff, which they were manufacturers, of whom his noble Friend now discussing; and he thought it was entertained such great and magnanimous proper that they should have before them feelings, would take such comprehensive the entire of that new system, and see the and disinterested views as his noble Friend whole produce of that new light which had imagined. He (Lord Ashburton) thought suddenly dawned upon the Government. their opinions would be more tradesmanWhether these measures were for good or like, and, notwithstanding the interest for evil whether they would bring round they evinced in commercial reform, would, such an extraordinary state of prosperity when they found no preference given to as his noble Friend opposite seemed to an- their fabrics, even in the Colonies, over ticipate, or whether they would be essen- American goods, alter their opinions, and tially detrimental to all the industrial begin to see the value of protection. The classes of the community, as he was in- coarser description of cotton goods, which clined to think, it was of the highest im- were manufactured in the United States, portance, and every way becoming in their would, in the event of perfect free trade, Lordships, that these measures should re- speedily come into competition with ours in ceive the greatest possible attention. He the Canadian market, and our manufacdid not find fault with any noble Lord for turers would find the case very different in inviting a discussion even upon the first respect to this class of goods, with the stage of such measures. From first to last finer fabrics, which were consumed by a their Lordships must be desirous of having higher and smaller class only. Some time all the light possible thrown upon subjects ago there was a meeting at Manchesterof such immense consequence. As for the a free-trade meeting-and a Manchester definition of his noble Friend opposite (Lord man, in urging the free-trade doctrines, Monteagle), he did not think much of it. said, there was the Macclesfield silk weaHe agreed with his noble Friend in think-ver who would have no objection to the ining it a question of protection or no-protection. He did not approve of that tricky, shuffling sort of definition, which was not very intelligible or distinct, and which was troduction of foreign silk duty free; but Macclesfield manufacturers who were present, though quite approving of free trade in any other article, begged to be ex |