fore, any noble lord prepared to say, that situation of the unfortunate debtor, no innocence was to be punished, because man could feel more compassion than he fraud was confounded with it? Were the did; and sorry should he be, were he inmiseries of the unfortunate to be aggra- strumental in gratifying any feeling of revated, even to excessive cruelty, because venge. But, when he considered the gethere might be an equal, or possibly a neral interest of the empire, and its comgreater, number of guilty among them? mercial relation, he must avowedly declare He was sure that their lordships would not his hostility to such frequent acts of relief: consent to that; and he also called upon they sapped the very principle of credit, them to recollect, that the greater the and, too often, forced the creditors of number of the persons immured, whether those very debtors, so released, into those guilty or not, the greater must be the prisons which they had left. For what haraships, the sufferings, and the miseries, did the preamble set forth? That this of those who were innocent. Thus he very bill, so introduced, was in direct optrusted, that this measure would appear, position to the interests of trade and crenot as proceeding upon any such limited dit, and solely referring for its support to view of the subject, or any such contract- the crowded state of the prisons; a false ed principle, as had been referred to, but principle in any point of view, especially one which he could as safely submit to the so in a commercial country; to him it apcool dispassionate judgment of their lord-peared monstrous. In his opinion, the ships, as in any appeal to the sympathetic question amounted exactly to this: Was feelings of the noble members of that that legislature, which had pointed out to house. He sincerely hoped, that their the creditor the means of enforcing the lordships would be induced to allow the bill to go into a committee; when any noble lord, who might conceive any particular provision as bearing hard upon the creditor, might argue for its modification and amendment; and in a discussion of this kind he should cheerfully contribute every assistance in his power.

payment of his claims, to say to that cre ditor, Now that you have pursued the steps, and adopted the measures recom, mended by us, (after having acted under the protection, and under the confidence of those laws which tended to secure to him the payment of what was due to him,) without your consent, we will oblige you Lord Eldon declared, that if any person to liberate your debtor, without the least conceived him hostile to the prayer of the liquidation of your demand. It would petition of the unfortunate debtor, he was cost their lordships no money to free such much mistaken in the individual who then debtor from his debts: and the consequence had the honour to address their lordships. of such a measure might be, that against On the contrary, he had sometimes sup-the next Insolvent act the former creditor ported, and sometimes opposed measures would endeavour to take the benefit of it of this kind, according to circumstances, himself. With respect to the effect of the in both houses of parliament. On one Bankrupt laws, alluded to by the noble occasion he had introduced a bill of a si-lord who spoke last, there were some conmilar nature, whilst a member of the other siderations as comparative of these lawṣ house; but acquired experience had con- of creditor and debtor referred to by the vinced him of their injurious tendency bill, which seemed to be overlooked. The and effects. He agreed in the necessity merchant, or opulent trader, or even the of some permanent measure on the sub-petty trader, cannot experience the protecject, and thought the remaining time of tion of these laws without the consent of a some professional man, who had retired certain number of his creditors; and, in from the active duties of the profession, the mean time, he might be kept in prison could not be better employed, than in at the suit of any one of them, till a divistudying the principles and the present re-dend was made of his property: indeed, gulations respecting debtor and creditor; though one creditor may select the estate, and devising some certain and permanent another may detain the person of the system of procedure. One great consi- debtor as a satisfaction for his demand. In deration was, that some general rule saying this, he did not mean to speak in should be adopted, in order that the creditor may know what, in his dealings, with respect to giving credit, he had really to depend upon. When he looked at the

approbation of that part of the code alluded to. It should further be recollected, that the whole property of the bankrupt in prison, was taken possession of hy

a process issued for that purpose; whilst in The Earl of Moira said, it must be in the case of a debtor, not subject to the the recollection of their lordships, that he bankrupt laws, be might go to prison, if he had, on all occasions, uniformly exerted chose, with 100,000, in the funds, which his humble talents to procure some general his creditors could not touch. He be- legislative provision which would obviate lieved, and he appealed to the recollec- the necessity of recurring, as a temporary tion of the noble and learned lord oppo- or partial remedy, to those measures, of site (Ellenborough), that, on the rejection the effects of which the noble and learned of a similar bill to the present, some time lords so much complained. He felt all ago, many debts then deemed hopeless their objections to acts of insolvency; but, were, at length, paid. He agreed with at the same time, he was of opinion, that the noble lord (Holland), that some justice and humanity required the adop amendment of the law was necessary: tion of the one now proposed. His noble but, whether by an extension of the bank-friend behind him (Holland) had corrupt laws to those debtors who were not rectly stated the circumstances which gave now subject to them, or by any other rise to the present measure; but, at that mode, he could not now attempt to de-period, he was not aware that his official termine. He thought, however, that, in avocations would have allowed so much such cases, a general principle should pre- leisure as he had found they did, otherdominate; but that the house never should wise he would, most certainly, have proceed upon such a false principle as that brought forward his promised measure; held forth by the present bill. Were the which the advanced state of the session property of such debtors to be vested in alone prevented him from immediately the hands of assignees, with full power to submitting to the attention of their lordtreat for the general interests of the cre- ships. He declared his perfect acquiesditors, proceeding on a general principle, cence in what had fallen from the noble he might be inclined to agree to it. But and learned lord (Eldon) as to the hardeven this should be prospective in its ope- ship of the unfortunate bankrupt, who, ration, and should be undertaken with the having literally subscribed to the proviutmost caution. If any general regula- sions of that code, and fully surrendered tion, founded upon such principles, could the whole of his effects, was still renderbe suggested, he would willingly give the ed subject to the inalignity of an irritated best of his humble assistance in digesting and vindictive creditor. But, if there and maturing it. He thought, however, was one argument stronger than another that one hardship might be immediately in support of the measure introduced by removed. As the law now stood, the dis- his noble friend (Holland), it was the case charge of the person of a debtor, when so stated by that learned lord (Eldon). charged in execution, was an effectual sur-Many unfortunate men, so circumstanced, render of the claim of the creditor. This, of itself, reduced the creditor to the necessity of keeping his debtor in prison, or renouncing his demand. This, in his opinion, might be remedied, by reviving an act which has, some time since, been ex-vation of that noble and learned lord (Elpired; and by introducing into it some amendments, which, he thought, he himself should be able to suggest, allowing the contract between debtor and creditor to remain untouched, notwithstanding the release of the latter, if the latter would so Consider it. However painful, and however liable to misapprehension, such conduct might be, he still felt it his duty to join his noble and learned friend (Ellenborough) in opposing the bill; and he thought that, if it were now rejected, many debtors now in prison would find the means of discharging many demands which their creditors now considered as hopeless.

were to be found in the various prisons of the united kingdom; and, therefore, the necessity existed of immediately relieving them by the direct interference of the legislature. There was also another obser

don), which immediately applied to and bore on the bill before their lordships. That learned lord had asserted, that, by the frequent operation of such acts, the distresses and embarrassments of creditors was so augmented, that, in many cases, they were unfortunately forced to succeed to those very prisons so lately vacated by their debtors. Here, then, was another undeniable proof of the necessity of a temporary measure of relief. Men, admitted to be unfortunate, were actually suffering. Ought, then, the means of relief to be postponed for another session? Such delay would, in his opinion, be an act re

pugnant to every principle of justice, fortunate and the fraudulent. To conequity, and law. The principle and ob- tinue the imprisonment of the first for his ject on which he wished and recommended inability to pay, was an act, not of false this measure to proceed, was that of full humanity, but of complete and flagrant enquiry and just discrimination, as his injustice: how to proportionate the pu sole motive and desire was to relieve nishment of the other was the next object those whose distressing situation precluded of consideration. In the commission of the capacity of liquidating their debts, crimes, the smallest circumstances often from absolute inability. Did the insol- were found to create the nicest shade of vency arise from causes. founded in un-distinction between the degrees of crimiprincipled dissipation, or a wanton profu-nality; and the most minute change in sion of means, it would be an act of false the quality of the guilt, led to a punishhumanity, nay even of dishonesty, to en- ment extremely different. In two cases deavour to relieve it. But his noble and which had lately met his view in the learned colleague (Ellenborough), and newspapers, he had found the principle the noble and learned lord opposite (El-of this observation fully illustrated. The don), in asserting, that the debtors who first was, where a man, by frequently had signed the petitions on their lord-kicking his servant-maid, had caused her ships' table, had entered into engagements death; the other was that of a serjeant, with fraudulent intentions, had assumed who had wounded a soldier so severely as a fact what they had by no means at- with a halbert, as eventually to deprive tempted to prove. On them rested the him of life. In both these cases, the task of proof; and, until they had sub-charge was murder; and the prisoners, by stantiated it, it was perfectly justifiable some peculiar nicety of discrimination, for him to assert, that they were not only escaped conviction; but the jury, in each free from the imputation of fraud, but case, returned a verdict of manslaughter; that they were unfortunate; and that they and the prisoners were sentenced to à had been peculiarly distressed, and hardly year's imprisonment. Viewing the inten dealt with. He maintained, that every tions of the respective parties, he believed prisoner who had signed the petition on the decisions, in both instances, just. Now, their lordships' table, was innocent. This admitting that the persons whom the noble assertion might be considered as extrava- and learned lords suspected of fraud, were gant; and it was so; it might be consi- really guilty of fraud, he would ask them, dered as the effect of inveterate prejudice, were they willing to assent to the proposi and, perhaps, it was so. But it was a tion that such a term of confinement, adposition he had a right to assume, equally judged as the proper punishment for a on the principles of Christian charity, as crime, approaching nearest to the extreme on those which had uniformly governed of human turpitude, was also a sufficient the proceedings of their lordships, and punishment for the fraudulent contraction which were so well understood, and so of a debt? The noble and learned lords strictly adhered to, in that court in which had arraigned the increased frequency of the noble and learned lord (Ellenborough) those acts, and he had expected to hear so honourably presided, where every man from them what interval ought to take was supposed to be innocent until his place between acts of Insolvency. He reguilt was proved. In such a case, how gretted that they had not favoured the then was truth to be elucidated, or the house with their opinions of what confinefact to be ascertained? Only by the opera- ment a debtor should suffer, and what detion of a bill which gave to the creditor terminate principle should operate in fixthe power of proving the fraud, and to the ing the punishment in such cases. Against imprisoned debtor the power of rebutting fraudulent debtors it was his wish, and he the accusation. To the fictions of law he knew it to be the wish of all the friends of had no objection, so long as they operated the present bill, that its provisions should in the furtherance of justice; but he be made as severe as possible. A prinshould ever deem it incompatible with ciple of enquiry and discrimination ought, British jurisprudence to punish any sub- above all things, to obtain in a measure of ject for a fraud until the charge was sub- this kind. The nature of the debt should stantiated by a full and accurate investiga- be fully and accurately considered;-whetion. Those who were confined for debts, ther contracted with the probable means were composed of two classes, the un-of liquidation; and whether such means

were wantonly expended with a profuse | ber of debtors which such delay would and criminal extravagance. If fraud enable to take the advantage of it. Ta should be detected, that fraud ought to king this measure in every point of view, of be punished; but let it be punished as a policy, justice, and humanity, he felt the crime, and not under the pretext of im- legislature imperiously called on to sanc➡ prisonment for debt. But, if the inability tion this act of relief, for so large a portion of the debtor proceeded from unavoidable of their unfortunate, distressed, and sufmisfortune, or unforeseen embarrassments, fering countrymen. to keep such a debtor in prison, merely Lord Ellenborough, in explanation, said, from his incapacity to pay, was, in his that one reason why he objected to the mind, nothing less than an insult to, and bill was, because it contained no such a mockery of, every principle of justice. principle of discrimination as had been alIt was insisted by the noble and learned luded to by the noble lord (Moira); bus lords, and on that assertion much stress that it went to set all at liberty, to diswas laid by them, that a majority of the charge the whole in the gross. He was persons confined had thrown themselves convinced, from the acknowledged liberainto prison for the purpose of participating lity of British traders, that they would be in the benefits of the Act now before this found, on all occasions, ready to indulge house. The truth of this fact he knew their debtors in the most liberal manner not; but, with his noble friend (Holland), possible; and he would take upon him to he thought there was every reason for say, that there was scarcely an instance doubting it. But, even if they had done where, if they perceived any inclination so, be contended that they not only did on the part of the debtor to act justly, to that which was natural, but that which the extent of his ability, they were not al was just. They had appealed to the wis- ways anxious to release him. He must dom and humanity of the legislature to impress upon their lordships' mind that if interfere between them and their rigorous this bill should pass into a law, the pri creditors; and, being ready, fairly and ho-soners would be for ever discharged, as to Bestly, to render up every species and sort their persons, without any satisfaction to of their property, they were, by every con- their injured creditors. This was a hardsideration of justice and equity, entitled ship which tended to the destruction of to the benefits of the compromise. The all trade and credit, as was fully admitted poble and learned lord, opposite, (Eldon) by the preamble of the bill itself.The when he presented some petitions hostile question was then put, and the house dito this measure of relief, had said, that vided; For the commitment 10; Against they merited the particular attention of it 5; Majority 5. The house accordthe house. In that remark he fully coin-ingly resolved itself into a committee, pro cided. They did indeed merit the atten- forma. tion of their lordships; but it was as objects of curiosity: and he could not help expressing his surprise, that that noble and learned lord should have presented petitions so incompatible with the principles and maxims of every regular and Constitutional policy in all free states. These petitioners had inveighed against the provisions of a bill of which they were totally ignorant, and which was not known even to their lordships. Without proving to their lordships any immediate concern that they had in the express object of the bill, they had assumed the right, not of petitioning, but of delivering their conclusive opinion on the principle which was likely to occupy the attention of the legislature. One strong inducement with him why the bill should no longer be deferred was, that the greater the delay, the greater would be the injury to the creditors, from the additional num

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, May 14.

[MINUTES.] A message from the lords announced their lordships' intention of proceeding with the trial of lord Melville, at 10 o'clock to-morrow, in Westminster Hall. On the motion of the Secretary at War, the Mutiny bill passed through a com mittee.-Lord Howick brought up the Re port of the Committee of Supply, the reso lutions of which, for a provision to the family of the late lord Nelson, were read and agreed to, and leave given to bring in a bill in pursuance of the same. Sir J. Newport brought up the Irish Stamp Duty bill, the Irish Loan bill, and the Irish Tea Duty bill, all which were read a first time.

[CONDUCT OF EARL ST. VINCENT.] Mr. Jeffery rose, and addressed the house as follows:-Mr. Speaker, I now rise, pursuant to my notice, to call the attention

line and 45 frigates were launched between 1783 and 1792, a period of peace previous to the last war. This proves, that building to a great extent, and thereby recruiting our navy, was deemed highly necessary in time of peace; and its beneficial effects have been fully felt in the late war. It is worthy of remark, that out of the number so built, 30 of the 42 sail of the line, and 41 of the 45 frigates; were launched from the merchants' yards. So that even in peace we were indebted to the merchants' yards for the greater part of our naval strength; although perhaps the necessity for so doing might have been less urgent, than earl St. Vincent expressed it to be in his letter of 29th Dec. 1802, on which I shall have occasion to observe more fully. But, sir, I shall shew, that

of the house to the papers laid on the table, relative to the Naval department; and to bring forward and substantiate the Charges which I have made of misconduct and neglect against the earl of St. Vincent, during the time he presided at the board of admiralty, for which I stand pledged to this house and to the public. I flatter myself, sir, that the house will do me the justice to believe, what I at first declared, and now upon my honour repeat, that I did undertake the task of public accusation of his lordship, without previous consultation with any person whatever; but not without having good grounds for the accusation, and sufficient information to warrant it. Still, however, I had not any intention of doing it on the day I at first addressed this house; but was, at that time, solely impelled by the repeated, ill-notwithstanding the laudable attention timed, and extravagant praises of the earl paid to building ships, it is notorious that of St. Vincent's zealous, but mistaken the greatest exertions were also made in friends. I then felt, as I now feel, that I all the king's yards in repairing ships was, and am, discharging a duty which during the whole of the peace preceding every member ought to feel when the in- the last war; and that; in that time (as I terests of the country are at stake; and, have just stated) 42 sail of the line and 45 at a time when our very existence as a frigates were built, so that the good state great, free, and independent state is and condition of the navy at the com threatened and endangered. The task I mencement of the last war cannot be have undertaken I. by no means repent.doubted; indeed, I am warranted in asI only lament that it has not fallen into serting, that there were at that time not more able hands; but, as I pursued my less than 100 sail of the line; together enquiries, I have derived strength and with a suitable proportion of smaller ships, confidence from the strength of my cause, in complete condition, and fit to go to any in point of substantial proofs founded on part of the world; and many more, with facts authentically recorded. On these I trifling repair, might have been so, if they now proceed, intreating the patient atten- had been wanted. This then was the state tion and candid hearing of this house.of the navy at the commencement of the Before I adduce any charges against earl last war in 1793. The accounts beginning at St. Vincent for unprecedented neglect in page 4 of the papers ordered to be printed building and repairing of ships whilst his 28th May, 1805, will shew the means by lordship presided at the board of admi- which the navy has been upheld. On one ralty; and with delivering up the navy to side, are the numbers added from time to his successor in a far less efficient state time, either by building, capture or purthan that in which he received it; it is im- chase; and on the other, the numbers portant that I should shew what exertions taken from the navy, either by being sold, were made during a period of several years taken to pieces, captured by the enemy, or preceding his lordship's administration; lost. From Jan. 1793, to Feb. 1801, and what exertions are necessary to pre- when earl St. Vincent came to the admiserve the Navy in an effective and power-ralty, a period of 8 years, it appears there ful state. Having done this, it will only were 18 sail of the line and 46 frigates remain for me to shew, whether earl built; 43 sail of the line, and 66 frigates St. Vincent followed the footsteps of captured; and 5 sail of the line, and 9 his predecessors in making provision frigates purchased; making in all, 66 sail equal to theirs; and whether his mea- of the line, and 121 frigates; which for the sures were generally such as the situa- 8 years made an average of 81 ships of the tion of the country demanded. By line, and 15 frigates annually.-But, it an account presented the 28th of May, it may be said, that as this calculation inappears that no less than 42 sail of the cludes captured and purchased ships,