with them should be violated on that ac- ought to be some other reason assigned for count; but this, however, did not apply to opposing any measure. If it were conthe present case. He then went on to tended, that there was any great constitu state, that he saw no reason why the seven-tional principle, which required that the pence a day given to the soldiers in the line two services should be exactly placed on who had served seven years, should not be the same footing, he must deny that doc. extended to the militia. At all events, it trine. There were already distinctions be ought to be extended to the non-commis-tween the services sufficiently marked. The sioned officers, who were on the same foot-regular officers had half-pay, when the miing as those in the line. He also objected litia had not; and the militia officers were to the bill, because it gave ministers the required to have qualifications, which the repower of doing as they pleased on this sub-gulars had not. The militia officers might, ject, either to give or withhold pay at their option, and this was the reason why an honourable colonel had said, that it put the militia more in the power of the crown. This measure totally altered the nature of the militia system, and was a breach of parliamentary faith. The right hon. gent. seemed, indeed, to admit this to a certain degree. It was a breach of faith, but a little one. He was somewhat like the lady who owned that she had had a natural child, but then it was a very little one. This measure ought, at least, to have been proposed in time of peace. He concluded by moving, that the word " now "be left out, and that the words "this day three months" be substituted.

perhaps, have some reason to complain, if any regulation, extending benefits to every other branch of the service, were to be withheld from them. That was not, however, the case in the present instance. A distinction was also made between the infantry and the cavalry, and the distinction was founded on the same reason, merely that the latter description of officers did not stand so much in need of the addition, and that if an addition was to be made to the pay of those who were not in need of it, there must be a diminution to the allowances, which the liberality of the house was called upon to give to those officers who were in need of the addition. This was the principal reason for making exceptions, Lord Folkestone, though he supposed it and the exceptions did not extend merely would be a material objection to the gen-to militia field-officers, but to those of the tlemen on the other side, that he was not cavalry and the guards, who certainly could a militia officer, must still assert his opi- not consider this distinction meant as a nion on the subject. He maintained, that slight to them. As to the alleged breach there was no reason whatever for any dis-of faith, it was the strangest thing he had satisfaction on the part of the militia offi-ever heard asserted, that the legislature was cers, for they suffered no injustice. The so bound by any one of its own acts, that it field-officers and captains were, by law, required to have certain qualifications, which rendered this additional pay unnecessary. Besides, they could not reasonably expect to be put exactly on a footing with officers of the line, who gained rank through toils and dangers, while they immediately attained their rank, on account of their property. The old mistaken principle had been departed from already; and, besides, it was a quite different service. He would, therefore, support the bill.

would be a breach of faith even to alter it. Would any person consider it a breach of faith to make an alteration in the mutiny law, even to make it more severe, if ne cesary? Would any body suppose, that it would be a breach of faith to the army to alter the discipline of one part of it, and not of another? As the militia was always to subsist in some shape or another, therefore, on those grounds it might be argued to the end of time, that it would be a breach of faith for the legislature to make Mr. Secretary Windham said, he was not any objections. It would be a breach of sorry that the gentlemen on the other side faith to do it in time of peace as well as in had taken an opportunity of renewing this time of war; and yet the hon. and learned discussion, as he felt convinced, that the member (Mr. Perceval) was himself the more the subject was discussed, the more person to propose its being done in time of it would be generally approved of. The peace, and not in time of war. If, then, lateness of the session was, to be sure, an he considered that it was a great breach of argument that told well in so thin a house; faith in time of war, and only a little one in but it should be recollected, that this was time of peace, the story of the lady and her not a substantive argument, and there" little natural child was only applicable VOL. VII.

4 G

power of his majesty's ministers to say he did not attend, he would make a point of taking some measure to stop the proceedings in every stage, unless there was a fuller attendance, and, more especially, of his ma◄ jesty's ministers.

to the argument of the hon. and learned fance of members; and, by the blessing of gent., and he might have done better to God, as he never would leave it in the have kept it to himself. The exceptions were not so much made upon the ground of economy, as on the ground of justice. It was but justice to the regular officers to give what was absolutely necessary for them. If this increase was not considered so necessary to the militia, they should rather consider it as an honourable distinc-authority the hon. gent. stated, that a loan tion, than any sort of ill treatment.

Lord Morpeth wished to know, upon what

would be wanted for the India Company? He certainly had made no such statement, in bringing forward the Company's affairs: nor did he hear any such thing mentioned by any of his majesty's ministers in that house.

Mr. C. Wynne observed, that the principal argument on the other side of the house, that the militia officers were injured by the arrangement prescribed in this bill, was a total mistatement, and a complete inversion of the fact: for how could the mi- Mr. Grant also disclaimed, on the part litia officers, who suffered no diminution of of the Company, the representation of their pay, be injured by a small increase of pay affairs made by the hon. gent., and which to the officers of the line? They, in fact, he could not suffer to pass uncontradicted. would sustain no injury whatever, and he He knew nothing of any loan proposed or was confident, would feel none, notwith-desired by the Company: they stood not standing the arguments of gentlemen, who in need of such assistance; nor did be assumed to advocate their cause; but hear any thing of any such proposition, whose arguments reminded him of a peti- with which their authority or wishes were tion of the celebrated lord Chesterfield to connected: a noble lord, indeed, near bim his majesty for a pension, professing," that (Castlereagh), in his speech, the preceding it was purely for the honour of it, and not for any pecuniary consideration."-The question being now loudly called for, on the third reading of the bill, the house divided; Ayes, 35; Noes 24; Majority for the bill, 11.

night, had thrown out a suggestion, that a loan of 5 millions might be desirable for the accommodation of the Company; but this was a mere suggestion in the course of a speech, wholly unauthorised by the Com

pany.

[INDIA BUDGET.] Lord Morpeth rose Mr. Paull defended the conduct, and and moved to postpone, till Friday, the approved the determination, expressed by further consideration of the India Budget. his hon. friend (Mr. Robson); and hoped, Mr. Robson felt it his duty to call the he would persist in his endeavours to obattention of the house to this most impor- tain a full attendance of members upon tant subject; and to express his astonish-every discussion on India affairs: for, notment, that affairs of such vital importance withstanding the declaration just made by to this country, as those of India, were to the hon. ex-director, it certainly had gone be discussed in such thin houses as this bu- forth, that the Company's affairs were in a siness had hitherto been. Whether the In- desperate situation. It had been said, not dia Company were to be continued by a by himself, but by a worthy alderman oprenewal of their charter, or not, their af- posite to him (Prinsep), that they were in fairs ought not to be treated with so much a state of bankruptcy; and, although the levity, with so thin an attendance of mem-noble lord's suggestion of a loan, in his bers, and, more especially, without the at- speech, the preceding night, might not be tendance of his majesty's ministers. Their admitted by the hon. ex-director, as an ofaffairs, as he was taught to understand, were ficial authority upon the point, yet his hon. in a most embarrassed and deplorable situa- friend had a right to consider such a de tion, almost, indeed, upon the brink of ruin. claration, coming from the noble lord, as It was declared in that house, that a loan, good authority upon a subject, namely, to an inconceivable amount, would be re- the situation of the Company's affairs, in quisite to support them; but, whether this which the noble lord's own character and was to be a loan of 7 millions, or 17 mil safety were so deeply interested: for it lions, or what not, he thought the subject was no secret, that the noble lord's conwas one of too much importance to be dis-duct in those affairs was likely to become cussed in that house, without a full attend the ground of very serious charges from an

honourable member of that house, who now filled an extensive space in the public eye. -The question being put, was agreed to, and the house adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

sanctioned the governors in the West Indies, in continually violating the law from necessity, for the purpose of admitting a supply into the West Indies from America, and who thought this of so little consequence, that they neglected, for three or four years, to pass any bill of indemnity.

Thursday, July 17. [AMERICAN INTERCOURSE BILL.] On Lord Eldon maintained, that there was a the order of the day for the 3d reading of material difference between indemnifying this bill, the governors in the West Indies for those Lord Hawkesbury rose. His lordship de-acts, and passing an act of parliament to precated any departure from those princi- legalize the principle. The great object of ples on which our navigation laws were our navigation laws, was to preserve our founded, and to which we were indebted maritime superiority, and they should not for our maritime superiority, and our great-lightly be departed from, as it should be ness as a nation. He did not mean to remembered that when our shipping and contend that there might not be cases in mariners were decreased, those of other which, from necessity, the general princi-nations would be increased; and that if, ple of our navigation laws must be de- in the event of a peace, there was not emparted from; but the present was not such ployment in our mercantile shipping for the a case; and, if an investigation was al-numerous seamen who would be discharged, lowed to take place, he pledged himself to many of them might enter into foreign bring forward merchants of the highest re- service. spectability, who would declare, that such a measure as the present was wholly unnecessary. He objected, that this bill was brought forward, and all investigation refused. He thought also, that the measure was rendered worse, by enacting it for an indefinite period; it would be, in his mind, niuch better, to limit the period of its duration to the 1st of July, 1807, as, in the mean time, an investigation of this important subject might take place, and parliament become acquainted with the real state of the question.

Earl Spencer defended the bill, which, he contended,had nothing to do with the general principles urged on the other side, it being only to give a power to the privy-council, to allow the importation of certain articles from America to our West-India islands, in case of necessity; and, in order to prevent any ill effects arising from the precarious nature of a supply, restricted wholly to this country. It did not, however, prevent supplies from being sent from hence in British shipping.

Lord Hawkesbury moved an amendment to limit the duration of the bill to the 1st of July, 1807.

The Earl of Lauderdale thought the amendment extremely inconsistent with the arguments urged on the other side. After some further observations from lord Eldon and lord Holland, the amendment was negatived, and the bill read a 3d time, and passed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, July 18.

Lord Holland contended that nothing more was meant by this bill than to vest that power in the privy-council, which had heretofore been exercised, contrary to law, by the governors of our West-India islands. That the power of allowing our West-India islands to be supplied from America, should be lodged somewhere, was demonstrable from the fatal effects which a contrary policy, that of restricting our colonies to a supply from this country had produced in those islands, when resorted to soon after [BARRACK ABUSES.] The Secretary at the termination of the American war. War rose to move for some papers in the This power, he contended, could no where barrack department, in order to disprove be better lodged than in the hands of his the assertions made by an hon. member majesty's privy-council, who were respon- (Mr. Robson) the evening before last. sible for the exercise of it, and who were He accordingly moved for an account more likely to be influenced here by Bri- of the disposal of the sums received by the tish interests, than the governors in the barrack-master-general for rent of canteens, West Indies, who, from their situation, were necessarily subject to be operated upon by local influence. He was astonished at the opposition this measure met with in all its stages, particularly from those who had

at the several temporary barracks, and also for manure sold therefrom since 1793.

Mr. Robson thought it most extraordinary, that it happened of late, that the papers which his majesty's ministers oppo

sed and refused, when called for by his tion of his character and services to his motions, should, in an evening or two af- right hon. friend (Mr. Windham); that be ter, be moved for by themselves. He had conducted himself without the slighthad another motion to bring forward on est blemish to his conduct or character in this subject on Monday, preparatory to that department, until he had disclosed to which it was his wish, with the indulgence the head of it the peculations he had disof the house, that the report of the com-covered, and solicited to be removed mittee of military enquiry, laid this night from Sandown to some other place, when upon the table, and ordered to be printed, he would make still more ample disclosures might be allowed to lie upon the table for of delinquencies which came to his knowanother day, that he might have an oppor-ledge; then, and not before, charges were tunity of perusing it. If not, he must made against him by the party who had bring forward his motion in the best way been injured in consequence of the disco he could without it. If the report was very he had made; and he was dismissed sent to the printer's, it was of such vo- without any opportunity being allowed him luminous extent, that it could not be finish- for his vindication, without being heard in ed before the house would break up, and his defence, or confronted with his accusers, would not, of course, be seen by the as he had intreated. [Here Mr. Paull members until the next session. But his read a copy of a letter from Mr. Atkins to object was to put as speedy a stop as pos- the secretary at war, acknowledging the sible to the system of peculation still going receipt of his letter of dismissal, expressing on, instead of suffering it to proceed, and his astonishment, and requesting to be conturning to retrospective considerations in fronted with his accusers; and the secrethe first instance. tary's answer, declining that proceeding, and alleging it not to be the usage of the office.] Mr. Paull added, if this gentleman was to be dismissed for only making a disclosure which he conceived to be his duty; if others were not also dismissed upon the same ground, it must be consiLord H. Petty hoped the hon. member dered a severe hardship and injustice inwould have no objection to signify the na-flicted upon an unfortunate gentleman with ture and object of his motion for Monday. a family of six children, and to whom he Mr. Robson answered, that, as he never thought some reparation ought to be made. wished to bring forward any matter of this The Secretary at War answered, that it nature without being grounded on state- was to the barrack-master-general, and not ments made to him upon affidavit, he was to him, that Mr. Atkins ought to have apnot yet prepared to explain particulars. pealed; and that the papers produced His object, however, was to detect and ex-would contradict almost every word which pose a system of the most flagitious pe- had been alleged by the hon. gentleman. culation, still going on in the barrack department.

The Speaker informed the hon. gent. that the report had been ordered to be printed, and it was not customary, when such an order was made, to interpose any delay, without a special order of the house.

The Secretary at War laid on the table some copies of affidavits produced at the war-office, in vindication of the conduct of Mr. Atkins, late barrack-master of Sandown, in the Isle of Wight, pursuant to an order made on Mr. Robson's motion on Wednesday.

Mr. Paull hoped those papers would be printed for the perusal of the members, in order to vindicate the conduct and the honour of a much-injured gentleman, of whom though he knew nothing personally, yet he knew his character; that he was a gallant officer, and had served, with high distinction, in the West Indies last war; that he had received his appointment as barrack-mnaster at the Isle of Wight, in consequence of a very high recommenda

Mr. Robson thought it extremely severe and unjust to have punished Mr. Atkins upon the affidavit which was alleged as the ground of his dismissal, without hearing him in his defence, and when there were three other affidavits in direct contradiction to that upon which he was dismissed.-The papers were ordered to be printed.

[FINANCIAL PROPOSITIONS.] Mr. Johnstone noved the order of the day for resuming the debate upon the subject of his Financial Propositions; which order being read, the hon. gent. observed, that the resolutions which he had to move upon this subject differed so little from the state of the public debt, as laid down by the noble chancellor of the exchequer, and agreed so closely with his statements in all the general results, that it was hardly worth troubling the house by going into a miuute detail on

the subject. There were, however, one or that time, and the total change of character two points which called for observation. On the war had assumed, especially in the late the commencement of the present war, a unfortunate campaign upon the continent, hope had been pretty strongly stated on expenses had accrued to an extent which the other side of the house, by a right hon. it was equally impossible, in the outset, gent., that the war might be carried on for human wisdom to foresee, or to avoid. without any new increase of the public Dr. Laurence made a few observations debt; and yet it now appeared, that, not-to the same effect; and said, the objections withstanding the ample increase of revenue of the hon. gent. would be best answered which had been voted as war-taxes, and by the reply quoted in a classic author, the new heavy burthens imposed upon the upon a similar occasion," that war was a country, the public debt had been increased devouring animal, and would be restrained 70 millions within the last four years, al- by no prescribed regimen."-The first sig though the product of the war-taxes, within resolutions were then agreed to, and the that time, had exceeded their estimates by debate on the Resolution respecting the two millions. He did not wish to expatiate Unfunded Debt was adjourned to Monday. farther upon this subject now, in the ab- [INDIA BUDGET.] On the motion of sence of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Vansit-lord Morpeth, the house, in a committee, tart), who had held out to the house and to resumed the debate on the India Budget. the country this flattering hope, which he Mr. T. Jones asked, if there had been an (Mr. J.) foresaw at the time was not likely adjustment of the sum of 2,672,4407. thus to be verified. Another subject for obser- described, and in a paper moved for by vation was, that, notwithstanding the pro-him in 1801: "By what due from governductive success of the war taxes, and the ment for stores and supplies for his mavery advantageous loans that had been jesty's troops, &c. &c." made since the commencement of the present war, yet, comparing the four years of the present war with the last four years of the preceding, it would appear, that the loans made in both were very nearly equal; for in the former, the sum borrowed in four years was 69 millions, and in the latter, 67 millions, while the quantity of stock at market remained still pretty much the same. The hon. gent. then proceeded to move his resolutions, which will be found in p. 1126.

Lord Morpeth replied, that this account, blended with another, amounting to nearly 4 millions, was in a way of settlement, and some part of it had been allowed.

Mr. T. Jones then asked, how much of the 500,000l. per annum, as settled by the charter bill of 1793, had been paid by the Company to the public.

Dr. Laurence spoke to order. He thought it contrary to the rules of the house, that, when the question for their determination was only respecting a single year, any member should think himself at liberty to ask all manner of questions. When the debate was disposed of, he certainly might find opportunities enough of asking the noble lord any questions he might think proper.

Lord H. Petty felt it unnecessary to say any thing on the subject of the general resolutions of the hon. gent., as they so nearly accorded with the statement he had himself made; and, with respect to the accumulation of the publie debt, in consequence of the exceedings of the war expenses beyond Mr. Hobhouse (the chairman of the comwhat was originally conjectured, he had only mittee) considered that it was the custom to say, that it must have been impossible to upon India budgets, for the member who state more than mere conjecture, as to what brought them forward, to take a very wide might be the probable expences of a war, in range into the general situation of the the outset of which the possible chances and affairs of India, preparatory to moving events, and, consequently, the true expense his first resolution; and that, therefore, at which it must be impossible for human it was allowed to other members, to take foresight to calculate upon any scale of ac-a considerable latitude in speaking upon curacy: added to this, however accurate that question. As to the right of asking such calculations might be, they must be questions, he believed the rule was this: founded upon the rate of things as they every member had a right to put questions; stood at the time; but, every one must but the person to whom they were put, know, that the extraordinary and unex-might answer them, or not, as he thought pected rise upon every necessary of life, proper.

and almost every article of supply, since Mr. T. Jones said that, if the learned