1681. fure of of the Houfe, and I hope they will pardon the Free- Anno 33 Car. II. dom of the Expreffion. I apprehend it a Reflection upon the King, and no other Confideration whatsoever induced me to fay the Words.' great I look upon this has come from the Secretary, as fo a Reflection upon the House, that he ought to come to the Bar upon his Knees, and ask Pardon of the House.' M. Fleetwood. 'We are all fubject to Infirmities; seeing that the thing H. Boscawen. is fo, the Secretary could not apprehend any Reflection on the King by fending him with a Meffage, but he might apprehend it on himself; it was a little fmilingly moved : but fince he has explained himself, I would have this, &c. paft by, as I would on the like occafion desire for myself." The Gentleman's Fault is a great one, but that after he Ld. Cavendish. has begged the Pardon of the Houfe, I am willing to pass it over. Though it be a great fault, yet 'tis too little to give occafion of a Breach at this time." · I am ready to obey the Order of the House, and I am Sec. Jenkins. forry my Words gave offence." So he went on the Meffage. We ought all to give God thanks for this Difcovery Col. B. of Fitzharris, next to the firft Discovery, of the Plot. It is a great fervice to the Nation, and 'tis not the first that Sir W. Waller has done. If ever the Thanks of the House was deserved, it is for this Difcovery; and I move Sir W.. Waller may have the Thanks of the Houfe, which was ordered accordingly.' Saturday, March 26, 1681. I confess I have been full of expectation of fome Ex- Debates on the pedient to fecure the Life of the King, and the Proteftant Exclufion. Religion, without the Bill for excluding the Duke, &c. Sir R. Clayton. My Expectation is from those who oppofed the Expedient of the Bill, (for I can call it no otherwife). I have in my weak Judgment weighed all Expedients I have heard of, and they feem all to me to be a Breach of the Conftitution of the Government, and to throw us into Disorder and Confufion. I have heard that it has been an ancient Ufage that Members have confulted their Cities, Boroughs, and Counties in any thing of Weight, as well as giving Money, before they refolved it. The Practice was good, and I wish it were continued; and we can difcharge our Truft no better, than in obferving the Direction of those who sent us hither. I received an Address from the City of London (having the Honour to be one of their Reprefentatives) in the Matter of this Bill of excluding the Duke, &c. I heartily wish fome Expedient may be found out to fave our Religion without it. But I muft purfue my Truft, therefore Ango 33 Car.II. I move a Bill may be brought in to exclude all Popish Succeffors, and in particular, James Duke of York.' 1681. Lord Ruffel. R.Montagu. H. Coventry. I have the fame Obligation upon me, as the worthy Perfon that fpoke laft, from the County I have the honour to ferve for. I have been long of opinion, that nothing but this Bill can fecure us from Popery. In the long Parliament, 'twas faid, that the Duke was a Papift; and the Danger of his Power will be more now, and every day informs us of the fad Confequences of it. Ifhould be glad if any thing but this Bill could fecure us. I know nothing elfe can, therefore I humbly move for it, &c.' The Security of the Proteftant Religion, and the Prefervation of the King's Perfon, is of fo great weight, that we fhould not have itaid to this Day to exclude the Duke; but I am forry to hear that Language, that because the King has faid in his Speech, he will tick to his former Refolution in not altering the Succeffion, &c. and propofes a kind of Expedient, &c. but in this we are not ufed as an English Parliament, but a French, to be told what we are to do, and what not; 'tis the greatest arbitrary Power in England to cow a Parliament, which may be was in defign to bring us hither: but be we called to York, or any Part of England, I believe we fall be the fame Men we are here, and were at Weftminfter. My Lord Danby diffolved the Long Parliament, and faid, he had fpoiled the old Rooks, and had took away their falfe Dice; and then started in the new Minifters, and they fhuffle and cut again, and diffolve Parliaments, till they can get one for their turn. I have heard much weight laid upon difinheriting the Duke; fure no Father would fcruple to difinherit a Son, or a Brother, nor turn away Servants that would ruin him. If Bishops and Counsellors would fpeak plain, they cannot anfwer deferring our Security fo long. But neither the Minifters of the Gospel have endeavoured the Prefervation of our Religion, nor the Minifters of State the Government, both acting against Religion and Safety of the King's Perfon: And I have no expectation of our Safety, but the Bill to exclude the Duke; and therefore I move for it, &c.' If this Debate must be proceeded in with the Regularity and Circumfpection it ought to be, you have tranfgrefied the Order of the Day already. Several Gentlemen tell us that there is no Expedient, but none tell us what is. All Men believe the Religion of the Duke is as fatal a thing to the Nation as can be, fhould he come to be King; and what do they deferve that perverted the Duke? But let us confider what depends upon this Houfe, and let us proceed like Men.. If we are of opinion, that the Exclufion of the Duke is the beft way to preferve Religion, this Houfe cannot cannot do it alone; if we cannot have that best way, You have had Motions propofed for Expedients, but J.S. (perhaps there is not a word of Expedients in the Order, and that Smith). anfwers it. (The Order was read.) Those who were here prefent when the Order was made, have left it free for a Bill, or any other thing, and therefore they are not tied to have Bills, or offer Expedients against Bills. To the Simile of the three Phyficians, that two could do nothing without the third, though one was for one thing, and another for another; if the cafe be fuch, that the two, in the Judgment of the third, did offer nothing to the fick Man but what was mortal, he ventures upon his own Difreputation to join with them. However, the three Phyficians do not agree; we never yet faw any thing from the Lords in answer to this Bill; all Expedients have hitherto been to increase our Fears of the King, and to haften our undoing; and when all was at ftake, to have Parliaments diffolved, that was an ill Expedient. Thofe who were near the King, and altered their own Judgments, and are come over to this Bill, &c. they are all put away, and thofe about the King now are for Expedients. The Council of the Jefuits, they have their End, by difappointing the Kingdom, and by raifing 1681. Anno 33 Car.II. raising the Fears of the People, either to take up with a falfe Security, as good as none, and fo to impofe Popery upon them that Way; or to bring the Kingdom into dif order. When Religion, and Laws, and all are at the dif pofe of a Popish Succeffor, the Kingdom will be in fo great diforder, that the Proteftants will not be able to enjoy them quietly: the Papifts have no furer way to effect their End. For the House to go into a Grand Committee, 'tis a Motion of great weight. If you deny it, it looks as if you would precipitate and deny free Debate: If you accept it, you will lie under the Inconveniency of Delay; and who knows how long we have to fit? If we were fure of our Time, to fit two or three Months, I would be willing to go into a Grand Committee. But as to the ill Umbrage of refufing a Committee, 'tis not like other cafes. I would have an Inftance, if ever in a thing of this weight, the House went into a Grand Committee. This Matter of excluding the Duke, has been depending two Parliaments, and any other way for our Security would have been accepted. Nothing elfe could be found out the laft Parliament, the whole Kingdom was fatisfied with nothing else. And now what reason is there to go into a Grand Committee, for a thing fo often debated to the bottom? No Man can deny, but a Grand Committee is proper, when fomething of an Expedient is offer'd; but to offer it generally, is as if the thing was never confulted nor debated before. I never faw any Expedient but this Bill, nor any Reafon offer'd against the Bill, but fet it afide, and think of Expedients. Therefore pray proceed according to the Order.' If any Gentleman have Expedients, I defire he would propofe them; if they be of any weight, they will deferve well of the Houfe; if it feems to them they will give us Security, I would be glad to hear them.' "When the Motion was firft made for going into a Grand Committee to hear Expedients, &c. I did then fecond it for this Reason; because of the Honour of the Place I ferve in. I did understand by the King's Speech, there were Expedients. I am unwilling to determine the Senfe of any Man, who am of the weakest: But a Motion was firfted and feconded for a Committee of the whole Houfe; and when this is done, I fhall offer fomething. I must speak again to that Queftion of a Grand Com. mittee, pray keep to the Order of the Day. Expedients that have been moved for already, as the Jefuits Powder for an Ague, &c. but our Difeafe is a Pleurify, and we must let Blood. Let us go to what will do our business, and it may bé we must have other Expedients to fortify the Bill. I would have the House rightly understand, that those who are againft againft going into a Grand Committee, are for excluding the Anno 33 Car.II. Duke from the Succeffion; and those who are for a Grand Committee, are for him to fucceed; and put the Question, if you please.' 1681. To exclude the Duke from the Succeffion, &c. that is Sir F. Rolle. a good Expedient to prevent Popery; pray let that, or others that fhall be prefented be confidered.' "If there be but one Expedient offer'd, I do not think, Sir T. M. (perthat Ground fufficient to go into a Grand Committee to con- haps Momfider it; but poffibly there may be feveral. This Bill is apeffon.) greed to be an Expedient; and I have known, that in a Bufinefs of lefs weight than this, you have gone into a Committee, &c. If an Expedient must be offered in the House, you cannot but allow Gentlemen to make Replies in a fair Debate, or anfwer Objections. And if you in the House will depart from that Form, the Houfe or Committee are equal to me. But our Debate is broke; one Gentleman said, he would be content with a Committee, if not intended for Delay. I do not doubt but this Day will have its full Effect. When 'twas moved on Thursday laft, for this Day to take into Confideration the Prefervation of Religion, without naming Bill or Expedients, it gave a great Credit to your Work. I would have no Difcouragements upon People that have Expedients, by not going into a Grand Committeee.' We are perplexed in having feveral Questions on foot. R. Hampden. I fhall put you in mind, That this Bill now propofed, is no new_nor ftrange Thing. Our Bufinefs, I fuppofe, is to find out Expedients to preferve the Proteftant Religion, and the King's Perfon; here is a Way has paft two Parliaments already; a Way, no reasonable Objection has ever been made against it; and a Way rejected by the Lords in grofs, without offering any other. But I doubt, if other Expedients be tried, if they prove falfe, we fhall endanger the Proteftant Religion. Some have faid, that Gentlemen apprehend they have Expedients; why then may they not be propounded, that the Houfe may judge whether it will be worth going into a grand Committee to confider them? But if Gentlemen will have it their own Way, or not at all, I'll tell you how this looks, as if they were fomething one way, and nothing another: But he does not difcharge his Duty to his Country, that does fo; therefore if Gentlemen have any, Expedients, pray let them offer them.' If the Houfe be of a mind to enter into a Grand Com- sir J. Ernley, mittee, I fall offer my little Mite, as 'tis every Man's Duty to offer Expedients that has any. I doubt not but other Men have, and better than me; but if we go not into a Grand Committee, I fhall offer what I bave. I do apprehend by the Bill propofed, that 'tis a Bar to the Succeffion of |